Hello;

I have a Mazzer mini e, so I have a nice quality grinder. For the last 3 years now I have been planing to save up and buy a commercial style machine ($2,000'ish). I just haven't managed to save up the money for it and want to see what less expensive upgrade options there are.

I am using a Artie Espresso, they sell for $149 on amazon. It is a pressurized filter basket that is an odd size, so I have not been able to find an unpressurized basket. It works and with the Mazzer I can get reasonable drinks out of it. It needs some seals replaced and the pressurized basket tends to clog up if you run a bit too fine; i.e. I'd really like to replace it instead of repairing it.

The only step up from this machine (one that has a regular portafilter) that I am somewhat familiar with is the Rancilio Silvia at $650. I know that is a well liked machine, and is a potential option, though I'm really looking for something a little cheaper if I can.

I do need the steam wand to work decently as I use it frequently.

Are there any other machines in the sub $500 range that have a non-pressurized portafilter that I might be happy with?

Will I be wasting my money buying something other than the silvia just to save a couple hundred bucks?

Thanks very much;

Jamie

It is not cheaper, but at first blush the new Silvano at chriscoffee looks like it might be an interesting machine at sub $1,000 prices. I have no experience with the machine, just like the specs. Could be worth a call to Chris.

Wow, that seems awesome for the price, I didn't think there were any machines with those features for under $1,000.

Anyone have any experience with this machine or is it too new?

I'm drinking some very very stale yemen, and I can't believe how good it still is, little watery, but still has a lot of flavor.

Jamie

jamiedolan wrote:Are there any other machines in the sub $500 range that have a non-pressurized portafilter that I might be happy with?

Yes. definitely.

Two brands to look at are Le'Lit and Gaggia. Both have quality components very close to that of the Silvia. I've never used Rancilio's machine, but I personally believe that it is over priced right now.

The Le'Lits, Gaggias, and Rancilio Silvia make up the solid entry level to great espresso. All of them are capable of really good espresso and reasonable steaming, but all of them require you to learn individual routines and quirks. The choice between them can be whittled down to specific features. Do you care if you have an aluminum boiler? Want a 3-way solenoid valve? Adjustable OPV? Button layouts, ergonomics, visual appeal, case material?

These features will guide your preference. Last I checked, almost all use the same Ulka pump. You'd be hard pressed to call any of them thermally stable, so I'm not sure if the small variances in boiler size affect quality in the cup hugely. I'm not trying to say that the Silvia isn't a great machine - it's market presence, resale value, and longevity speak highly - but don't think it's the only one.

jamiedolan wrote:Will I be wasting my money buying something other than the silvia just to save a couple hundred bucks?

I bought a refurbished Le'Lit PL041 for under $300, and I've never been disappointed with my decision. Shop around... your best value is always changing. Don't be afraid to buy used either.

I do have experience with the Gaggia Classic which I like quite a bit in its price range. The main issue with it is temperature stability, but, there is lots of assistance on the Yahoo Gaggia forum. There are two or three mods which help it along quite a bit, and detailed instructions for how to do them. However, by the time you have purchased the Classic at the $395 sale price and done the mods, you come fairly close to the price of the Silvano.

The Silvano is more than I really was looking to spend, but it looks like you get a lot for the money. I do use the steam wand a lot, primarily making cappuccino.

I watched a video of milk steaming on the Silvano. It looked like they steamed a small pitcher of milk in about 30 seconds, but the end of the video was clipped, so I wasn't sure if it was really that speed or not. It looked to be about as powerful as the steam wand on my cheap machine, maybe a little more powerful. Being able to steam at the same time you pull a shot is a big bonus.

How do you think the Silvano compares to the Silvia?

To answer the questions about the features; I really want something that produces consistent results with out a lot of trouble; i.e. problems. Right now the pressurized portafilter clogs up on me and is hard to clean. I don't really want to have to do any of the temp surfing type of stuff. I have to run water now after steaming to get the temp back down.

If I can really get a machine for $800 that will be a good machine long term, then I would go for that. If the Silvano isn't a good choice long term, then I would be limiting myself to something cheaper and in that case, I would say the non-pressurized portafilter would be one of the most important features to me.

I've used a Dalla Corte, I'd love something that easy and consistent, but looking to pay only about 1/3 of that price, I know I am going to have to compromise.

Thanks
Jamie

mini wrote:I bought a refurbished Le'Lit PL041 for under $300, and I've never been disappointed with my decision. Shop around... your best value is always changing. Don't be afraid to buy used either.

I've been watching the craigs list ad's in my state, but have not found anything reasonable for my needs. I've only see either really low end machines or commercial machines that are $3,000+.

I'm a bit nervous about how to know if something used is really any good or not if I just order it online. The machines on ebay always seemed to get into bidding wars the last time I watched machines on there. Especially the Silvias.

Jamie

jamiedolan wrote:To answer the questions about the features; I really want something that produces consistent results with out a lot of trouble; i.e. problems. Right now the pressurized portafilter clogs up on me and is hard to clean. I don't really want to have to do any of the temp surfing type of stuff. I have to run water now after steaming to get the temp back down.

I've used a Dalla Corte, I'd love something that easy and consistent, but looking to pay only about 1/3 of that price, I know I am going to have to compromise.

Thanks
Jamie

You are going to have to "surf" in one way or another with all of the machines in this price range. You have to do some playing around in order to modulate the temperatures and keep them in range. Temperature stability (important to me, less important to others on the forum) is best achieved in the DB machines where separate boilers are rather precisely controlled. But, right now that will take you out of your price range. In all probability this will be an interim machine.

Below $500 you can get good temperature stability from the Twist, the Bacchi, and some of the older open kettle machines. However, none provide the steaming option save an occasional Peppina.

I have no experience with the Silvano - but the specs suggest that they have given considerable attention to temperature management. Chris is pretty straightforward. If you describe your parameters he will endeavor to give you good information. And, to complicate matters further, Crossland is supposed to be having a low cost model coming down the line eventually.

If you can find a Mokita cafe creme it's also a good option at around 400-500$ It takes a time to make good shot but once tune in it makes a nice job.