Grinders, grinders, which grinder? Good for fine and coarse grinds!

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
oldbrit
Posts: 23
Joined: 11 years ago

#1: Post by oldbrit »

I may be different from most here. I have several French Presses, an older model Krups pump espresso machine, a Chemex, a Melita one cup pour over, Zojirushi drip coffee maker with thermal carafe, several stovetop moka pots of various sizes, and even an electric percolator. I've never tried a vacuum maker or an aero thingy. I have a hand pump frother, a stove top pressure steamer, and my Krups has a steamer on it.

What I do is go on jags where I will use one coffee-making method for a few weeks, get bored, and switch to a different one. I tend to go blacker and denser in the morning and thinner, lighter, and sweeter as the day wears on.

The only thing I do that isn't whole bean is when I use the percolator to make coffee with chicory.

All of this is to say I'm rather schizophrenic about coffee. I'm not after the ultimate cup of espresso, just the best I can do, given that I don't have the patience to perfect any one coffee making method.

I had a twenty-five year old Krups grinder that I loved because it was consistent and would do espresso grind and coarser grinds well. It has now died. So, I need a new grinder.

I'm not interested in restoring anything or refurbishing it. Used would be OK, but...

In reading up on grinders, what I think I'm discovering is that the hand grinders are actually rather good and much more economical than electric models, but I'm really not sure.

What's important to me is to be able to grind espresso and coarser grinds consistently and without getting a lot of powder in my French press grind or rocks in my espresso grind. Maybe "versatile" is a better word than "consitent".

So, here are my questions:

Given the ability to do fine and coarse grinds which of the hand grinders do you suggest? (I'm looking at the various "modern" grinders such as the Hario's, but I'm not opposed to one of the retro models if they perform and are in the same price range as the modern hand grinders.)

How much do I have to spend for similar performance in an electric grinder and what models do you suggest?

I even thought about buying two Hario Minis, setting one to Espresso and one to French Press and then leaving them alone.

I don't care about cleaning the grinder so that I won't contaminate one bean with another, but I do care about getting all of the espresso grind out so it doesn't end up in the French roast grind I do later in the day.

If I seem scattered, I am. I need some help making a decision. I'm on a budget. The thing I hate more than anything else is buying the wrong thing. So, help!!!

Thank you for reading my rant.

erik82
Posts: 2146
Joined: 12 years ago

#2: Post by erik82 »

Just wait for the OE Lido 2 to come out. It will satisfy all your needs.

Electrical options would be a Baratza Vario(-W) or Preciso.

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damonbowe
Posts: 476
Joined: 11 years ago

#3: Post by damonbowe »

I suggest focusing on Bartaza grinders or, if you really want to do it on a budget, a used Mazzer.

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boar_d_laze
Posts: 2058
Joined: 17 years ago

#4: Post by boar_d_laze »

Don't make us guess. What IS your budget?

Your post left some lines to read between. Given that you use an old Krups espresso machine and given that you believed that your old Krups grinder did "espresso well." I'm going to infer you're not very demanding when it comes to espresso. In any case you can get something new, and much better than the Krups was, for under $300.

The Breville "Smart" and Baratza Virtuoso are both marginal for espresso and borderline excellent for everything else. To give that "marginal" some context, both are significantly better for espresso than your old Krups. The Smart is $200, the Virtuoso just over. We own a Smart which we use for vac and FP, but bought a Virtuoso for my daughter who uses it for her Kone/Chemex pourover. In my opinion, the major difference is styling.

We're very happy with our Smart, but we use a separate (and far more expensive!) grinder for espresso.

At $300, the Baratza Preciso (aka Baratza Virtuoso Preciso) is as good as the Virtuoso and Smart for everything else, but makes a quantum leap to adequate for espresso. To give that "adequate" ,some context, it's a couple of light years better than your old Krups was. I think of it as the bare minimum for "decent" espresso, and -- if you can afford it -- the Preciso is my recommendation.

As a rule, I think hand grinders are too much trouble as "daily drivers." Hand grinding can get old pretty quickly for someone who grinds several times a day.

There are a couple of high quality hand grinders which would probably suit your needs, but neither is available right now. One, the Lido II is a re-design; while the other, the Comandante, isn't yet on the market. Both should be available sometime in mid-October. Neither is inexpensive; but both are reputedly far better than everything else.

Good luck,
BDL
Drop a nickel in the pot Joe. Takin' it slow. Waiter, waiter, percolator

oldbrit (original poster)
Posts: 23
Joined: 11 years ago

#5: Post by oldbrit (original poster) »

Thank you for your reply.

Actually, I misspoke. My old grinder was a Braun conical burr grinder. I've looked over the years and never found the model listed anywhere. It was actually much better than you might expect. Toward the end, the espresso wasn't as fine as it used to be.

Even so, you are correct that I am not as finicky as many. Just the fact that I use so many different coffeemakers (and which ever coffee bean looks good when I go to the coffee shop), gives me away.

The suggestion of the upcoming Lido or the Commandante sound good. I'm hobbling along at the moment with a $20 Black and Decker for coarse. For espresso, I re-grind the output of the B&D in a blade grinder I picked up at a yard sale for $3.00.

Budget? Well, I tend to keep things for a long time, so I want something that will work well. I'm trying to establish what I can get and how cheaply. I suppose, I'd prefer spending less than $100, which is why I'm looking at hand grinders, but if I were convinced I had to spend more, I'd eat bread and water for a few weeks and spend $300 - $350. BUT, I really want to see how well I can do for the least amount of money possible. It's sort of a game with me. That's why I researched carefully, then waited patiently until what I wanted became available, and then bought a Panasonic P50GT50 50" Plasma TV ($1,500 at Amazon) for $600.

I'm happy to hand-grind for daily use. When I entertain, if I don't want to hand-grind, I can always go to the coffee shop down the street (where I usually buy my beans anyway) and buy 8 ozs, and have them grind it.

When I get bored with hand grinding, I will buy an electric grinder at some point, but I really want to see what I can do with a hand grinder first.

INTERESTINGLY: The folks here have already given me most of what I need. I now have an idea which hand grinders to look at and the price range for the cheapest electric that will do both fine and coarse properly.

oldbrit (original poster)
Posts: 23
Joined: 11 years ago

#6: Post by oldbrit (original poster) »

damonbowe wrote:I suggest focusing on Bartaza grinders or, if you really want to do it on a budget, a used Mazzer.
I'll look into the used Mazzer. Any particular models? It looks like a used Mazzer is likely to cost a minimum of $500. Does that sound right? If so, that's more than I'm willing to spend. I am patient and will wait and look for one at a better price, if it's reasonable to expect I might actually find a deal on a Mazzer in the $300 range.

But, I'm still interested in other possibilities.

erik82
Posts: 2146
Joined: 12 years ago

#7: Post by erik82 »

Problem for you is that a Mazzer sucks for everything else then espresso. If you want to do drip then don't buy a Mazzer.

Intrepid510
Posts: 968
Joined: 13 years ago

#8: Post by Intrepid510 »

From the sounds of it either a Baratza Encore or Virtuoso will do the job quite fine for you.

cmin
Posts: 1379
Joined: 12 years ago

#9: Post by cmin »

Do you have another espresso machine or just the Krups? If just the Krups it's just an entry level one like Delonghi etc, their all pressurized portafilters so they don't actually make espresso at all and make fake crema (hence the nickname crema-enhancer), what you get is more akin to a shot of drip or press. Their designed for people with inadequate grinders or using pre ground etc. So in your case buying a fancy grinder would be a waste of $. With that Krups machine and your others uses, I'm with the above in that an Encore or Virtuoso would be more then enough for your needs.

I have a Hario Mini as well, if you don't mind long ass grinding, it can work for your needs, but it doesn't have the "fines" control of the two mentioned above which make all the difference in press or drip or pour over etc, and it's not as consistent as far as grind quality. I use mine just for traveling.

Baratza updates their site on Thursdays for refurbs as well (could call them and check too), and you may find a nice deal on an Encore or Virtuoso. Either way their great grinders and in your budget range.

oldbrit (original poster)
Posts: 23
Joined: 11 years ago

#10: Post by oldbrit (original poster) »

cmin wrote:... So in your case buying a fancy grinder would be a waste of $...
You know, I came here for information about hand grinders, not to be insulted.

The krups was their top of the line pump / thermal block machine in 1989 or 1990 when I bought it. I'm sure that's entry level by your standards, but at the time, it was the best thing available at the coffee shop, with the exception of a lever model at which I turned up my nose. It makes an excellent cup of espresso and I have learned to use the wand to get the foam down to "micro" size. The biggest problem with it is that it will make two cups and then it takes a while to recycle due to the size of the water heating element, so it is impractical to use when entertaining.

As I said, I'm looking for a better grind, no matter which method I use to make my coffee. I keep hearing that the grind is extremely important to the end product - no matter what method is used or the quality of the coffeemaker. In fact, my next door neighbor who has a Pavoni professional and an Elektra 60's full auto told me that a good grinder will improve the taste of the coffee from a crappy coffeemaker even more than it will improve the taste of the coffee made using the very best coffee makers. He has a Siminetti(?) grinder and another one, but I don't know what it is.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but he told me a good hand grinder is the cheapest grinder, by far, to get a consistent grind size at the various points on the scale from espresso through drip to French press. In other words, the less expensive electric grinders tend to be really good at fine grind or coarse grind, but not both. The reviews I've read seem to confirm this. On the other hand, it appears to me that a good hand grinder can do a good job of fine and coarse grinds.

My neighbor ground some of his espresso beans for me and then gave me some of the same whole beans which I ground myself. Even with my crappy little Krups, from which no one who appreciates real espresso would ever deign to take a pull, I could tell the difference between what he ground and what I ground.

Put another way, what's the cheapest electric grinder that will really compete with a top-notch hand grinder going from fine to coarse?

I want a proper grind to reduce sludge in my French press and to help make my espresso more consistent, even if it will be an inferior product you would not allow to touch your lips.

When the Krups dies, I'll likely go to a lever espresso machine, but that's really beside the point.

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