I was wondering if anyone had any advice on grinders for the Millenium Pavoni I was able to snag for a good price. I know they say as a rule of thumb you should spend half your budget on the machine and half on the grinder (ie similarly priced grinders often complement same priced machines). However, it's difficult for me use this rule since my like-new millenium normally sells for a lot more than what I paid. I've been looking at a used Baratza Vario, which seems to get great reviews on performance, but I'm worried about its durability compared to a Rocky for instance with its completely metal body, common availability for replacement burrs, and possible modifications to boost its performance unlike a Vario. Any advice would be appreciated! I have about a $2-300 budget.

thevitruvianman wrote:I know they say as a rule of thumb you should spend half your budget on the machine and half on the grinder (ie similarly priced grinders often complement same priced machines)I have about a $2-300 budget.

That's not a rule, nor is it the norm. It may be good consumer-sense, but from a coffee standpoint, it only makes sense to get the best possible grinder, and spend the remainder of your budget on a machine. Really it should be at least 60/40, probably closer to 70/30 if I had $1000 to get a quality setup. (lurk ebay and find a $300 pavoni, and a used mazzer major, or a voodoo'd Pharos) $500 is really the entry point for new grinders. With your budget the only real option is a hand grinder (lido 2 or hausgrind, if you get lucky a Pharos will be for sale when you're looking). You could try and find a used super jolly, but they seem to have gone up in price, and the days of a beater mazzer for pennies are long gone. If you raise your budget to 400, you can get a refurb vario from baratza. I have successfully used a vario for various things for the last few years, and it has done well as an espresso grinder. I keep going back and forth between it and my Pharos. They're both good, the pharos is better, but the motor keeps me going to the vario.

Avoid your benchmark rocky at all costs.

But doesn't the Rocky fare well with the Pavoni?

No, the Rocky can't be seen as a decent grinder. It's just not good for espresso (or anything else) and small levers need a very good grind quality. You're going to at least need a Baratza Vario for good shot quality.

I would echo a suggestion for a Pharos, hand-grinders go well with a lever in general just because people that don't mind to "pull!" the shot usually don't mind to grind it themselves. But you do have to realize it would add a lot more time to prepping your basket. But you get a lot better grinder for a lot less money with a hand grinder.

The Vario would be very easy and convenient, and it will make great espresso for your Pavoni. I didn't have good luck with mine, but I generally attribute that just to a single grinder since a lot of people love theirs.

Other options may be a used Super Jolly, sometimes they can be had by scouring Craigslist for closed coffee shop listings, or on eBay at relatively good prices.

Intrepid510 wrote:But doesn't the Rocky fare well with the Pavoni?

In the Titan tests, rocky had reasonable success with classic doses and classic espresso (14 gram doses), but was by no means equal to other grinders tested. Where it really loses is adjustability, the steps are wide and hard to dial in properly, leaving adjustments to dose, which isn't ideal. The burrs also lack compared to other options in the price point, so there's hardly a reason to get one.

If you want electric, I'd get a refurbished Vario or else hunt for a used super jolly. If you are comfortable with hand-grinding, I'd definitely go with a Pharos, as it will beat anything else in this price bracket by a large margin.

FWIW, I've been pulling great espresso shots with $10 used hand grinders and home lever machines for years. Thousands and thousands of shots. I recently upgraded to a hausgrind, but am still very satisfied with the $10 Dienes I use at work. These used hand grinders are no longer to be had for $10, and now there are new options like the hausgrind and feldgrind for nearly the same price as the vintage grinders cost.

The Pharos is said to deliver better quality espresso than the smaller conicals, but if it is unavailable or out of your price range don't be afraid to try a hausgind or similar.

pacificmanitou wrote:With your budget the only real option is a hand grinder (lido 2 or hausgrind, if you get lucky a Pharos will be for sale when you're looking).

pacificmanitou wrote:If you raise your budget to 400, you can get a refurb vario from baratza. I have successfully used a vario for various things for the last few years, and it has done well as an espresso grinder. I keep going back and forth between it and my Pharos. They're both good, the pharos is better, but the motor keeps me going to the vario.

EspressoForge wrote:I would echo a suggestion for a Pharos, hand-grinders go well with a lever in general just because people that don't mind to "pull!" the shot usually don't mind to grind it themselves. But you do have to realize it would add a lot more time to prepping your basket. But you get a lot better grinder for a lot less money with a hand grinder.

[creative nickname] wrote:If you want electric, I'd get a refurbished Vario or else hunt for a used super jolly. If you are comfortable with hand-grinding, I'd definitely go with a Pharos, as it will beat anything else in this price bracket by a large margin.

The general consensus seems to be to get the used Vario, and I've found one that will fit in my budget. However if I could get my hands on a Pharos that they produce better grinds. I love the idea of hand grinding and that it seems to produce a fantastic grind. Do any of you all know if Barb and Doug are still making them? And about how often they have more available? Because with the Vario as an option, I don't know if I can be patient enough to refresh the orphanespresso site for a month hoping that they're still producing them while my pavoni just collects dust. Thanks again!