Waaaaay back when, I posted here professing my love for Starbucks mochas and asking you all for advice on how to replicate them at home with a super auto. The end result was me being converted from a mindless mocha-guzzling sheep to a somewhat more educated *good* coffee drinker. Now that tax time is here, I am ready to buy!

I have finally landed on the Baratza Vario as my grinder (not purchased yet). However, I am still confounded on what machine to buy. I thought I had it narrowed down to a Gaggia Classic or a Silvia, but now I'm not so sure. The Gaggia may not fit my needs and the Silvia doesn't sound beginner-friendly. Maybe you all can help me if you are feeling adventurous.

I will be making (1) triple 16-oz. mocha on a typical morning. This will probably get upgraded to a quad once I have a machine and can actually use it. On the weekends, I will be making (2) triple 16-oz. mochas back to back. And like everyone else here asking for buying advice, I would like to keep my total around $1k.

Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions? Any and all would be greatly appreciated as it seems my brain has now shut down and simply refuses to make a decision on this.

Basing my comments only on what you have stated as your desired beverage, the Vario is a fine grinder, and the Gaggia should would quite well and save you some money. I have an $8 Krups I found at a thrift store that would be fine for what you are going to be making. To paraphrase what I have said many times, "Thirteen ounces of hot milk and chocolate will hide a multitude of sins in three ounces of espresso."

I'm sure that either machine (or any of the small Gaggias) would pump out acceptable espresso for a big mocha, and be able to steam the milk to go with it. They would also both give you room to improve the espresso if you ever wanted to start drinking it straight (or as a macchiato, cappuccino, etc.)

Not to make things any more confusing, but if I were to buy a new started machine today, in addition to the two you've mentioned I'd also look at the LeLit PL041 (http://www.1st-line.net/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=PL041) which I think is sort of a nice cross between a Gaggia and Silvia, at a slightly cheaper price. I've never used one, so I don't know if it's any more difficult to use, but it certainly looks good for the price. You can buy some extra beans with the money you save.

Thanks for your quick replies!

Randy - I definitely feel as if I can tell a difference in espresso quality, no matter how much milk and chocolate is thrown into the mix. I have had the opportunity to drink mochas made with "bad" espresso and "good" espresso, and it is a very different drinking experience between the two. Not to mention that making great espresso (to put into milk-based drinks and to maybe even drink on it's own one day) is something that I am excited about learning. Thus, I want a decent set-up from the get go.

TrlstanC - I'm sure both machines will make "acceptable espresso". My concern is that the Gaggia won't be able to handle the volume of milk I want to steam, especially on the weekends. Also, I'm wondering how the Gaggia will handle the timeline of pulling 3 or 4 shots, plus the steaming. My concern regarding the Silvia is that, based upon my research and the number of somewhat intimidating posts from others about her, she may chew my newbie behind up and spit me out lol! Funny that you should mention the LeLit...it's already on my revised list of machines to start researching.

Does your $1,000 dollar total include the cost of the Vario?

As a previous Silvia owner I can tell you that the Silvia is a little finicky, but it certainly isn't rocket surgery.

Once you get the hang of her you'll be fine. There's alot of information out there on the Silvia as well, so you'll never be short of answers.

jessabelle wrote:Also, I'm wondering how the Gaggia will handle the timeline of pulling 3 or 4 shots, plus the steaming.

It's out of your price range, but for a confirmed latte lover, an entry level HX espresso machine like the Bezzera BZ07 is a great fit. The single boiler (dual use) espresso machines like the Rancilio Silvia/Gaggia Classic/Le'Lit PL041 are tiresome if you're preparing more than 2 drinks. Another consideration, though off the beaten track, is the Ponte Vecchio Lusso. It's easy to use, brews/steams at the same time, and has a small footprint. Note however that it favors ristrettos, so Big Gulp lattes are out.

I think the Silvia probably has the edge on steaming power, at least over the Gaggias, although with any of these small boiler machines you'll have to make sure that you temp surf when frothing milk (make sure you time your frothing to when the heating element is on, keeping the water on "boil"), which isn't that hard once you get the hang of it.

I usually only do a couple oz of milk in the morning, and have added a Silvia steam wand (which makes frothing much easier to control) but as long as I do it right I've never had a problem steaming 12 oz of milk with the Gaggia when needed (although that's probably the limit at one go). We've done 6+ machiattos for guests, or milk for a couple hot chocolates at night, or even steaming up some egg nog during the holidays (although this did tax the little boiler a bit, that stuff is thick.) On the plus side the rebound time for small boilers is quick, so if you do run out of steam, it's only a minute or two until they're ready to go again.

In regards to steaming power, any single boiler of the home variety will be challenged to properly stretch 10 or twelve ounces of milk, back to back. The Silvia will do it, but there will be a wait between the two.

How far can the budget be stretched and/or how long can you wait? For that sort of steaming power, and the ability to make back-to-back drinks, you would do well to get a machine in the heat-exchanger or double boiler realm. More than two drinks of that nature back to back is a bit beyond the limits of design out of a single boiler.

For now, might I suggest another direction: Get the Vario (from all reports a very capable grinder). For the coffee, get an Aerobie Aeropress. For the steam power, for now, pick up a used steam espresso machine from a thrift store or eBay. Then save to get a machine with some real capability at some time in the future.

I have had some bad tall mochas (hot coffee/chocolate milk shakes, really), but can you imagine just how horrible the straight espresso would be that was added to it? The mind shudders to comprehend such a taste. Considering how much fat that most of those commercial beverages contain, and all the sugar, the espresso must have tasted like brown oil-base paint. I would say that it was probably worse than all but one or two pulls I have had in 9 years of making espresso at home.

For this volume of milk, a small boiler machine like the Gaggia will die. The Silvia is a bit better, but will still take 90 to 120 seconds of steaming, plus the wait for the changeover. Dan is right about the BZ07, it steams almost as fast as a commercial machine, faster than anything costing under 2K. It would do this amount of milk in well under a minute.

Steaming lots of milk in a timely fashion is not cheap, since it requires a large boiler.

Troll - Yes, the budget includes the cost of the Vario. Thanks for the reassurance on Silvia!

And what a variety of options you all have given me! Here is the part where I try to apply your logic and try to make an intelligent decision, while taking none of your suggestions Don't you love it when people on message boards do that?

I think that my best bet may be to go with an SB/DU...probably the Silvia. I'm leaning towards her because of the sheer amount of info out there regarding her, the fact that she has been tried and true countless times, resale value, and her number of very satisfied customers. Besides, I'm already referring to this machine as "her" LOL!

If I am understanding you all correctly, the Silvia will be able to handle one of my drinks fairly well and it's the back to back drinks that would be problematic. I will just make my drink on the weekend first before I make anyone else's and tell them to go pound sand for a bit. This purchase is to make *me* happy, after all!

Sound like a good plan? Thank you all for the time you have spent helping me