drjch wrote:I recently returned from Italy where, as you know, they have espresso bars on every corner. It was the same in Spain. Why is it that no coffee shop can come close to the espresso that I consistently had in every coffee bar I was in.

This is so patently untrue, that it suggests you would benefit from several trips to, as someone else recommended, Octane. Octane hosted the U.S. Barista Guild Annual Party this year and outdid themselves.

The coffee comes first. Introduce yourself to their baristas. They know their stuff. Sample different kinds of drinks: straight espresso, machiatto, cappuccino. Watch the baristas very carefully and talk to them when business is slow. You can learn a lot from them.

Sample different coffees, both blends and single origins. Get yourself a standard of reference and find out what good, fresh coffees are available locally. Some are likely to be far better than the mass market blends you had in Italy. Then go shopping for machines with a better idea of what your needs will be at home.

I can produce equally good, although slightly different, shots from my A3 and VBM. When you go up the scale from a prosumer to a commercial machine you have a relatively large price jump. If the VBM is 1300 and the A3 3500, is the cup 2000 better? No. You do get slight changes in the cup but to realize those changes you need a relatively developed taste and a refined technique (a couple years of practice). What you are paying for is consistency and ease of use. I can get more consistent drinks with no more effort from my A3 but there is a point of diminished returns.

Once you get into the $1300 range, the machines have a relatively level playing field. At this point you will get more bang for your buck in the grinder and beans. If I was starting over, I would look for a used Super Jolly over something like a new Rancilio. You would get a quantum leap in your cup and pulling shots would be easier because the grinder produces more consistent results. The grinder really is that important.

+1 Dave

mgwolf wrote:Good point, Dan. A Mazzer Major would be overkill for most newbies, probably even for 90 % of the people who look at HB. Michael

I agree with you Dan, and Michael as well. A well built low price grinder will be way more than most people want or need.

But I tend to find that most people end up wanting to upgrade.

Thanks for listening.

-Cecil