I know this has been covered. I have been reading the site for days. I want fully automatic, I am willing to sacrifice a little perfection for time saving of one step grinding and brewing. My parents have Jura Capresso S9 and my brother has the E8, but I know I dont want to spend 2k yet. I have been looking for refurbs of the E 8, or 9, but are all gone everywhere. What else can I get in that range, looked at the Saeco vienna, or Espresso Italiano, for size and features. Is there another one I am overlooking in this range?

I know little of super-automatics, but if funds are tight, you could buy refurbished. For example, Seattle Coffee Gear sells factory refurbished Jura super-autos for less than half original retail. Another inexpensive and convenient option is Nespresso. They're readily available and you can sample them at Williams-Sonoma.

Eric, welcome to HB!

Just to keep your terminology straight:

bigbirney wrote:I want fully automatic, I am willing to sacrifice a little perfection for time saving of one step grinding and brewing. My parents have Jura Capresso S9 and my brother has the E8 . . .

All of the machines you mention -- and what you describe -- are super-automatics, not full-automatics. There is a significant difference, and I suspect you already know that, but there are times when word choice is important, and "full(y) automatic" describes a different sort of machine entirely.

With that lesson in semantics over I, too, would suggest you look at Seattle Coffee Gear for a refurbished super-auto, though I don't know if they have any for only $500 -- remember, it's just after the holidays, and they may be low on inventory of refurbished machines right now; you may have to wait until some of the Xmas returns come in . . .

(The same is true, BTW, for the selection of refurbished machines at WLL -- nothing right now in your price range.)

Cheers,
Jason

Eric: Now I'm not an expert in coffee making, especially in context here at HB, but I do have decades of experience with machinery. The more complex a machine the less likely an inexpensive version will satisfy. Super Automatics are by necessity quite complex. I can't imagine a $500 Super Auto working well or lasting. Just as an experiment in the numbers a good home full or semi-auto machine is at least $1200 and a full café qualified one is at $4-5000. A full café qualified Super Auto is $14,000+. If the math holds then a bare minimum Super Auto should be $3500 at least.
Kenneth Duke Masters
The Bill of Rights
December 15 1791

Remember, there is a reason why there are so many refurbs available.

True . . .

I would try and figure out which retailer is a good fit for you. Then pick a $500-ish machine. They are not impossible to fix but much more difficult than the less automated machines. In circumstances like this, I think that there can be bigger differences between the retailer and your set of experiences there than between the brands.

My neighbor has one and it has been running for at least 6 years with basically zero maintenance. It is a Saeco, no idea which model.

WES

Thanks everyone. That is what I kind of figured on Super Autos. All of the 500 dollar refurbs are of 800-1000 dollar machines. I just cant justify a grand to my wife yet, who thinks good flavored ground coffee with flavored creamer is great! Is a good grinder really 350$, can a good one be gad for less? i was looking at doing that, and maybe a Gaggia Classic.

bigbirney wrote: I want fully automatic, I am willing to sacrifice a little perfection for time saving of one step grinding and brewing.

You must be willing to sacrifice much more than a little. No problem with your machine preferences, just with your description of the situation. Don't want to mislead others.

bigbirney wrote:I just cant justify a grand to my wife yet, who thinks good flavored ground coffee with flavored creamer is great!

My condolences . . .

bigbirney wrote:Is a good grinder really 350$, can a good one be gad (sic) for less? i was looking at doing that, and maybe a Gaggia Classic.

You're going to be much happier, in terms of quality, with this type of setup than you would with a super-auto.

Eric, let me divide the World of Espresso Equipment into three parts: 1) consumer (designed for home use); 2) professional (designed for high volume use in commercial cafés and coffee houses); and, 3) the hybrid category in the middle known as "prosumer" (professional equipment designed for low-volume establishments or "espresso fanatics" at home). Most people have consumer equipment at home. Many of us here have prosumer equipment. And some of us have commercial equipment.

Top-notch home grinders, bordering on the prosumer category, would include the Mazzer Mini, the Macap M4, and the Compak K3.

The only true home grinder that not only competes with but exceeds these grinders -- and is LESS expensive -- is the Baratza Vario.

The Anfim Best is another first-rate choice for a home grinder.

All of the above-mentioned grinders -- new -- cost more than $350. That doesn't mean you couldn't find them for under $350 USED, and that is a definite option. Just give it a thorough cleaning and a new set of burrs and you're good to go! However, you can find some very good consumer-grade grinders for less than $350 new. For example, Vanelli's has the Mini-Pro III for $249, and the Mini-Pro II for $195.

Hope that helps . . .

Cheers,
Jason