I put the cart before the horse and now it's time to get a real grinder. I have limited counter space, so something smaller would be ideal.

It's crazy overkill to have this machine in the first place since I only make a couple espressos anytime the machine gets turned on (which is not even daily) and while I want to match the machine with a quality grinder, I don't need to grind 10 pounds a day. Hell, I'd even hand grind provided the quality and consistency of the grind is good.

I have a lead on a Super Jolly, but again, it's big, and cranks it out fast. Do I really need all that?

Thanks!
-Mathew

Sounds like you'll be happy with a Baratza Vario or Forte AP (careful don't get the BG 'Brew Grinder')

A super jolly is a fine grinder. If your lead you're referring to is a good deal on a used one, and you have room for it, then I say go for it. Be aware that you will probably want to replace burrs if it is used.

If you'd rather have something smaller Jorge's suggestion of a vario is a good one. Its pretty much the best 'designed for the home' grinder available. Beyond that you're looking at big commercial units, unless you want to hand grind, in which case pharos and hg-one are great options.

A "good match" for the M21 doesn't work in the way you seem to envision it.

The M21 is good enough for any grinder. That doesn't make it special. Speaking as an owner and huge fan of the M21, there are tons of machines going from about $1300 on up which do about as well presenting a grinder. If there's any comfort to be had in elite comparison, no machine is better.

As a rough rule of grinders:
Spend as much as you can afford on the largest grinder you can possibly jam into your space.

The Vario/Forte are either in or nearly in the same "in the cup" class as any of the good grinders in the SJ class. In other words, as espresso-only grinders, judged strictly for their in the cup performance, they're good / borderline very good; but they're a long way from excellent. On the other hand, the Baratzas are among the very best grinders for just about every characteristic which goes to ease of use, both used as "on demand" grinders, or used "single dosing." B- in the cup, A+ in use.

Neither of the Baratzas nor anything in the SJ class is as good in the cup as the "big flats" -- a category which I mean to include the Anfim Super Caimano, K30 Vario, the La Cimbali Max Hybrid (even though its a "hybrid," as well as the usual 83mm usual suspects. Nor are they, or the big flats, anywhere nearly as good as the big conicals.

If you don't want to spend the money and/or can't find the space, on a big conical "on demand" grinder, then you don't and/or can't; and you're looking at less expensive and/or smaller grinders.

The HG One is 17-1/2" tall. Short enough to be stored under some cabinets; too tall for others; and way too tall to operate under any ordinary cabinets. It is "single dose" only, which I regard as an insurmountable pain in the ass, but others think it's the only way to fly. Otherwise it's an excellent, big conical.

The Pharos is so difficult to purchase, I'm not sure if its a realistic option.

The Cimbali Junior with the hybrid burr set (aka Junior Max Hybrid) is 17" high, and I think still available new out of Canada; and can occasionally be found used. I used one for a few years with my M21; it's a borderline excellent grinder -- about the same in the cup as a Mahlkonig K30 Vario, for instance, but something of a bitch to maintain.

How many pounds of beans you grind in a month has nothing to do with quality in the cup. Regardless of demand, a great grinder will grind small quantities of beans great while an ungreat grinder will grind ungreat. However, occasional use means that if you use a hopper with anything other than a very low retention grinder (like the Vario/Forte), you'll be sacrificing a proportionally higher amount of beans to purge stale fines than you would if single-dosing.

There is no small, great grinder. Figure out your first priority and we'll take it from there.

Rich

What Rich said!

Rich,

I'm trying to digest all of that. I'm so green that I've not heard of nearly every suggestion here.

All the variables:

Money: I don't have a budget and could afford a several thousand dollar grinder, but I'd really LIKE to keep it in the $500 range. For this reason, I'm skimming the used market. I bought the M21 in rough shape and have re-furbished it myself. I don't mind a project, and I don't mind waiting for a good deal.

Space: I have the space, provided the grinder can be brought out and put back away. I just don't have the permanent counter space for it. I didn't really have the space for the M21 Junior, but it's plumbed in, so nothing to be done about that. It would be NICE to have it stay on the counter though.

Use: I'd really like to have a grinder where I measure the beans, toss them in the grinder, grind them, and dose the coffee right into the portafilter. Normally I grind enough for two people to have a latte, 80g or so. That's it for the day. I don't mind a hand grinder (I'm using a very poor one right now, please don't judge too harshly), but it does get annoying when I have 2 or more guests.

Maintenance: I don't mind a high maintenance machine, but who doesn't like something that's simple and easy to use/clean?

I just watched a video of the two hand grinders Nathan mentioned and I'd be happy to use either one of those. The HG-One looks especially well made. The Pharos looks like better bang for the buck, but it's not available?

*Sigh*, such choices. It should would be easier to make one if I had a nice cup of espresso.

I know you guys can't make a perfect decision for me, but some of it is luck of the draw. What comes up on the used market for a good price might just win out. I'm basically just trying to get a list of acceptable grinders for the variables I've listed that I can keep an eye out for on auctions or craigslist etc.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

MathewC wrote:All the variables:

Money: I'd really LIKE to keep it in the $500 range. For this reason, I'm skimming the used market.

Space: The grinder can be brought out and put back away.
I just don't have the permanent counter space for it.
It would be NICE to have it stay on the counter though.

At first I thought a Super Jolly might be a good used machine for you at that price, but you seem to not have the counter space. If you want to put that grinder away daily then don't really look hard at the used market and just get a Baratza Vario refurbished from their website. Good little grinder, and best of all it won't break your back when you move it around.

If you can make space on the counter then you'll make more espresso and open yourself up to a larger selection of grinders.

I recently upgraded after using my Vario for over a year to a Compak K10. Huge difference in the cup, price, and weight. The Vario weighs around 10 pounds and the K10 around 38 pounds. You just aren't going to want to move most commercial grinders around much due to weight.