Lemme chime in.

1. I have owned 2 Gaggia Classics and am also quite familiar with the Silvia and have worked on both simultaneously.

Gaggia because of its smaller boiler is much faster to
a. go from espresso to frothing.
b. froth 2 drinks in a row.

You will not however be able to do more than 2 milk drinks in a row... and yes the amt of milk will need to around 6 oz or less.

The Silvia frothing power is MUCH stronger so it will give you better microfoam. But the Gaggia, with practice, can give decent microfoam.

The Gaggia is not as finicky, way more forgiving.
The Silvia though is capable of yielding better shots and better milk based drinks.
The drip tray on the Silvia is much smaller - u need to clean out MUCH more frequently.

My advice for a total newbie of home espresso - go with Gaggia...
Re the grinder... Mazzer. Macap. Vario. Not the Gaggia grinder.
ULTIMATELY, IT IS ALL ABOUT THE GRINDER AND THE BEANS...

Oh... and Bed Bath and Beyond sells the Gaggia Classic. They have a great return policy....

anne wrote:And I know this is a loaded question, but what makes the Silvia better than the Gaggia classic? The more I read, the more similar they seem. Or is it just preference/personal opinion?

As a caveat, I have no personal experience with the Silvia, but the two machines seemed similar enough in their capabilities that I couldn't justify the extra $200 for the Silvia, and from what I've seen on HB and CG, it seems a fair number of others came to that same conclusion.

I was in the same situation as you a few months ago, and my solution was 1. the Vario, and 2. a craigslist pre-millenium La Pavoni Europiccola ($175.00). I consider that I have probably one of the cheaper setups of those here, but the performance of both of these appliances is just amazing. So, give it some thought. There are good deals out there that will make you smile, early in the morning.

(the fact that I bought a Bezzera auto a couple of months later is neither here nor there...)

What if I could get a used Pasquini Livia 90 for $600? My research just took a turn.......

Depends on the condition and 'warranty' for the Pasquini. If in good condition, jump on it!

Personally I'd opt for the Silvia vs. Classic for steam power and shot quality, but the Pasquini makes the choice moot. ( someone has to defend Silvia )

Have you been to Temple coffee ( in Sacto )? If not, go. You'll be inspired to make fantastic drinks.

First-time poster, but I've been lurking a while and I have some comments to offer on this.

I use a Gaggia Classic now, and had a Gaggia Carezza before we moved. I'm an espresso drinker only, but make an occasional cappa for my wife.

Comment 1: A lesser Gaggia like the old Carezza (nearest current equivalent is the Evolution) can produce the same quality of results that the Classic can. Sure, the Classic's 3-way solenoid is handy (before that I'd relieve pressure through the steam wand before dismounting) and it looks much nicer in a kitchen, but if you suppose that you might start with a machine in this class and upgrade later, you can do it for less money than a Classic and still get equivalent-quality results.

Comment 2: I never got satisfactory milk texture from the Gaggia stock wand. Better-skilled people apparently can, but not me. Replacing it with a Silvia wand (not too hard on a Classic, details vary from model to model) improved milk texture immensely. Your mileage may vary, but I'd suggest being prepared for this possibility since your focus is on milk drinks.

Comment 3: For milk drinks you need to acquire good espresso skills and good milk texturing skills -- and with a machine in this class, the added workflow of heat management and steam management and timing serves as a significant distraction while you're learning all this. I'm very sure it would have taken me longer to develop good espresso technique if I'd been ongoingly timesharing my attention between that and managing the machine for steam. So (though I say this without relevant experience) I can't disagree with those here suggesting you look at an HX machine at the outset.

Comment 4: That said, a caveat. I participate in an audiophile-headphone enthusiast forum, and newcomers frequently find themselves convinced to spend more than they'd originally planned, on the theory that this will save them from the compulsion to upgrade later on. I am not aware of this strategy ever having worked. I suspect the problem's not as bad over here since, if nothing else, most of us have limits to our kitchen counter space, but it's fully possible that you will still want an upgrade in a year or two whatever you buy now.

Welcome to Home-Barista, Anne . . . if you haven't already, you should read How to Buy an Espresso Machine. It's a great place to start. Also, take a look at Espresso Machines 101.

Anne, please bear with me for a moment through this long-winded reply . . .

One way to classify espresso machines is by how they operate. In that regard, there are four basic types of espresso machines.

A manual machine has no pump. It is lever-operated, and may or may not (depending upon the model) have a spring atttached to the lever. In other words, in some machines (like the La Pavoni Europiccola or the Olympia Express Cremina), you provide the pressure to force the water through the ground coffee; in others (like the Ponte Vecchio Lusso or the Rancilio Classe 6LE) the machine has a spring -- you pull the lever down, and the spring action pushes the lever back up, thus forcing the water through the coffee.

A semi-automatic machine is pump driven, and the pump is controlled by a simple on/off switch -- sometimes the switch is a tiny lever; other times, it may be a rocker switch or a button -- controlled by the operator, like the Gaggia Classic, the Faema E61 Legend, or the Izzo Alex Duetto II. These machines can be designed as a Single Boiler/Dual Use (SB/DU) machine like the Gaggia, use a Heat Exchanger (HX) like the Faema, or come equipped as a Double Boiler (DB) machine, utilizing separate boilers for brewing and steaming like the Duetto.

An automatic machine is one in which the water flow through the coffee is started with the push of a button, but stops automatically after a pre-programmed volume of water was been dispensed. These are also known as "volumetric" or "volumetrically dosed" machines. They typically have at least three, and perhaps as many as seven, button on the machine -- in the case of three, it would be for "Single" shot of espresso, "Double" shot, and a simple "On/Off" switch so that the machine can be used exactly the same as a semi-automatic. In the case of my Elektra T1 (see the picture below), there are seven buttons; these represent a single ristretto, single normale, single lungo, double ristretto, double normale, double lungo, and a manual On/Off button -- but you can program them for the volume you want. You can also see the buttons clearly on this Faema E61 Jubilee (the auto version of the Legend). Indeed, most high-end commercial machines (like La Marzocco, Elektra, Faema, etc. come in both semi-auto and auto versions). These, too, can be HX (like the Elektra and Faema) or DB models (like the Vibiemme Double Domobar Electronica), but I cannot recall ever seeing an SB/DU model automatic.


A super-automatic, like the Gaggia Platmium Vouge, a Quick Mill Stainless Superautomatic, or the $24,000+ Franke Sinfonia, does everything.

Now then, there is no doubt that the Rancilio Silvia is an excellent machine, one of the top machines in its class (SBDU). It is also, IMHO, overpriced by about $200 . . . hold off on that for a moment. The Rocky is a good, not great, grinder; so, too, the Gaggia MDF (I used one for 25+ years).

Anne, I believe in spending enough money to get quality, but not spending excessively. (The fact that I am one of those who has spent a fortune is merely proof that sometimes "lust" gets in the way of "logic.")

Start with the grinder:

The Baratza Vario is an EXCELLENT grinder @ $429 (less any available discounts), and is capable of "surviving" any eventual upgrade to the "starter" machine you buy. But you should also know that you don't need to spend that much for a starting grinder. Understand me: the Baratza Vario is, IMHO, the most "bang-for-the-buck" grinder out there, and it is one of the few grinders capable of grinding for everything -- espresso, drip, press pot, and everything in between. (Most espresso grinders do espresso only.) But you can get a more-than-decent "starter" grinder for less, like the Cunill Tranquilo ($235), the Bezzera BB004 ($279), the Le'Let PL53 ($269), and more . . . all of which (except the Baratza Vario) will cost you less that the [url=http://www.1st-line.com/machines/home_mod/rancilio/rocky_sd.htm]Rocky[x], and close to (+/-) the Gaggia MDF.

ALSO, you REALLY SHOULD take a look at the grinders sold by Vanelli's under their own name, especially the "Mini-Pro II" and "Mini-Pro III." Vanelli's, by the way, is located very close to you in Rocklin (4125 Del Mar Ave.; 866.482.6354 or 916.315.2538).

As far as espresso machines themselves go, my top two choices for a first machine would be the Le'Lit PL041 ($379.95) or the Gaggia CLASSIC ($399.20 from Whole Latte Love w/20% off coupon, or $399.99 from Costco).

Your total will run you anywhere from (approx) $594 to $830, depending upon grinder . . .

Cheers,
Jason

Thank you all so much for your help and advice. I just purchased the Gaggia classic and Baratza Vario at wholelattelove.com......I know that you'll see me back here with questions when my christmas toys arrive.

Thanks again! This forum and website has been *invaluable* to my espresso education.

Welcome to the club

I bought a vario a couple months ago, and bought an older classic from ebay a little before that.

It took some time and work to get the classic back in shape, but it works fine now, and I am happy with the combination. I added a PID to my classic, which I think makes it easier to use, but that's something you can think about after the warranty runs out on your new toy.

Randy

Congrats on a great grinder, and a way cool espresso machine. I hope you find a fine place for your goodies and find a welcome home here as well.

Again welcome Anne.

-C