Hi guys, I've had a frustrating time in purchasing a Mahlkonig K30 Vario.

I write to you all for advice on what to do--not to complain to the air. Dan, if this is outside the productive guidelines please contact me or remove the post.

Three weeks ago I ordered a new, black K30 Vario through one of the site's sponsors. It was drop-shipped directly from Mahlkonig, but upon unpacking it was gray, not black. When the vendor contacted Mahlkonig, the first reply was "can't be--we shipped a black one" and I was asked to take pictures to prove it was gray. Frustrating. They sorted out their error and I sent it back.

The second grinder arrived a week later, and when I unpacked this one, the grinds catch tray had coffee sludge (not loose grounds from testing) and milk splatters on it. I was concerned it wasn't new, so I checked the shot counter: it has 196 doubles on it, and 18 singles! Needless to say, more than used for testing.

The vendor is frustrated with Mahlkonig too, and contacted them with my concerns. The vendor was told, again, "Can't be true. We only have new ones in stock. He has to send it back so we can check it ourselves." I guess the supposition is that I got the grinder, pulled 200 shots in one day, and now want a new one?

At this point, the vendor is out of options with Mahlkonig, and I'm pretty frustrated. I've left messages with Mahlkonig's US Head of Operations today but haven't heard back yet.

What would you guys do? Seems to me I'm owed either a new grinder (I paid full price) or the used price for the one I have. I know they're good for many 10's of thousands of shots, but it's the principle of the thing.

That is frustrating. Sometimes it seems to me like espresso business is full of tugs. Its like evolution to good business practices somehow avoided them and they are still stuck in 1960s...

Depending on your disposition you could do two things:

1. Contact everyone and give them 10 days to resolve issue while collecting documentation. Then, if there is no successful outcome revert credit card charge.

2. Try to get concession for being sold used grinder but not expand much time and energy on it and just move on. This would be my action. Nothing good comes out of creating negative energy, then spending time on it and getting caught up in something that is essentially meaningless. Just clean it up and move on You'll be happier.

Hope this helps.

Maybe you should try a different distributor who actually has stock on-hand they can check before shipping.

tekomino wrote:Try to get concession for being sold used grinder but not expand much time and energy on it and just move on.

This is what I think is most reasonable. I'm hesitant to just move on, because the price difference between new and used is nearly $400. And the principle of it irks me, but i appreciate your thoughts on the negative energy.

Bob_McBob wrote:Maybe you should try a different distributor

Yeah, I thought of that too, in retrospect. The vendor (and site sponsor) has been professional and very helpful, but they're also hands-up-in-the-air.

Let me get this straight: you ordered (and paid for) a new unit but were shipped a used unit?

That's misbranding a food product and it's illegal at both the federal and state levels. My step would be to contact my credit card company and tell them not to pay for it. If they've already paid for it, call the police.

This is just general advice for any consumer purchase:

Step 1: Pay with a credit card.
Step 2: If the vendor gives you anything but what was advertised and paid for try to work with them to get it fixed.
Step 3: If they don't fix it tell them you're going to contact your credit card company and file for a charge back.
Step 4: If they still don't fix it contact your credit card company, the magic words are "Goods not as advertised."

I've actually never had it get to step 4, step 3 has always been effective, but it's good to know that in these situations the credit card company is actually on your side, and will usually place the burden of proof on the vendor, not you. Depending on your credit card company the process can either be quick and easy, or slightly drawn out, but it usually gets resolved in your favor (if in fact the merchant screwed you and wouldn't fix it).

In this case it's a little more complicated where there's a vendor and the manufacturer, but the way I see it, if you're going to drop ship, you should also take on the responsibility of resolving any issues that come up.

I agree with Tristan's sage advice on resolving a consumer purchase dispute. However...

nitpick wrote:My step would be to contact my credit card company and tell them not to pay for it. If they've already paid for it, call the police.

No need to call 911, credit card agreements allow time for disputes:

Fair Credit Billing Act wrote:The FCBA allows consumers to dispute billing errors by sending a written notice of the dispute to the creditor. To trigger duties under the Act, a person must send a written dispute via mail (US Postal Service) to the "billing inquiries" address on their credit card statement. This dispute must be received by the creditor within sixty days of the statement date on the account statement that first contained the billing error. This often leads to a chargeback to the vendor.

After receiving notice of a dispute, the credit issuer must acknowledge the dispute within thirty days, investigate the claim and, within ninety days, either make appropriate corrections to the account or send a letter to the consumer explaining why the creditor believes there was no error. If the creditor responds that they believe there was no error, the consumer can request copies of documentation supporting the validity of the disputed items.

Unfortunately, many consumers do not know the nature of the commercial industry or apply consumer standards into the commercial industry. In a commercial situation, many entrepreneurs (not all) would not even flinch an eye at this as it is common. There is less need for perfection in cosmetics as well. Of course, this is not your fault as a consumer.

Mahlkonig is really set up and geared towards the commercial environment. This is why they are delayed reacting as they really hone their resources to the commercial sector. This is unlike Baratza which is geared more towards the consumer.

I am not sure who your vendor is, but I suggest you work with them on a solution. It is their responsibility as you are their customer. They should not be 'passing the buck' as I see many online retailers do. Then your retailer should work it out with Mahlkonig to meet your solution.

As already advised, you have the option to dispute the charge. However, there are a few little secrets people do not know about here

a) this is a small industry and many know each other and speak to each other. Word can get around publicly about the retailer, but consumers can also be black-marked behind the scenes from future purchases,
b) even if it is no fault of their own, a retailer with many disputes on record can lose their privilege to charge credit cards in the future - this is especially true for the smaller outfits, and
c) a very small secret I learned back in 2004 was that actually credit card banks will keep track of the number of disputes you initiate - a consumer with a higher proportion of disputes are seen as a cost to the bank.

As fair balance to what was already stated, there are also many consumers and commercial entrepreneurs who cheat/squeeze retailers to non-existence or failure. Yes, customer service can be so great that its costs are more than the profits made to exist. So, there is a 2 way street to this conversation.

Also, did anyone ever figure out why so many retailers in so many industries publish very little information about products sold. The main reason is that they do not want to be held accountable for every bullet point description. So, after a retailer knows this, less information becomes available in the long term. The best claim I received about 2 weeks ago via a phone conversation from a customer was that the product we sold him was 'not as advertised' for a description listed on another website for the same exact product. I explained that we were not responsible for errors on other web sites.

Once again, to be fair to your retailer, try to work it out with them directly.

In a commercial situation, many entrepreneurs (not all) would not even flinch an eye at this as it is common. There is less need for perfection in cosmetics as well.

While this thread has lots of sound advice, the sentiment above is disturbing to me. It is my experience that a number of vendors that concentrate on commercial sales do ship demo units or returns as "new". I am not implying that any site sponsors do this, but it does occur with some industry vendors. Just because such a practice is common, that they get away with it or that many/most commercial customers don't have the time or inclination to complain.. in no way does any of that make this an acceptable or excusable practice.

My comments do not apply to equipment that is sold as demo/used/returned/customer remorse/refurbished, etc. But passing off "lightly used" as new is just plain wrong despite any justifications to the contrary.

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Thanks to everyone for the advice--very helpful and I really do appreciate it.

At present, the vendor asked me to call the Mahlkonig USA directly. I'll try to speak to them and explain the situation to see if we can work something out.

Part of me is angry for being shipped a not-new machine.
Part of me is angry that they're denying it's possible that so many shots have been ground.
--Esp. after they insisted that the first machine was black. It wasn't. I was looking at it.
Part of me wants to forget about it, but then I cycle back to the angry bit.

The vendor has told me that Mahlkonig wants the machine back, to verify the high number of shots. I'm not lying, they're really there. I haven't personally ground a single shot, not one!

If I don't make headway with Mahlkonig USA, I'll go back through my vendor and (unfortunately for them) put the responsibility back to them.

Grrr.

But thanks again, all, for your advice. Will keep you up to date.