I know that you might be tired of this type of posts - but nevertheless, here is another "what to buy???" post...

My Gaggia Classic is getting tired and I've decided to move up a notch to an E-61. Trying to make my mind up about which is not easy (as I'm sure you all know), and it's further complicated by the small choice of locally available options in Hong Kong where I live.

I've narrowed it down to these:

* Fiorenzato Volante (or Bricoletta) plumbed in with a rotary pump from a local supplier (about US$1,700).

* A custom plumbed in version of Expobar Brewtus III, with two 1.5 liter boilers, 1200W heating elements, a PID and rotary pump (slightly different specs than the WLL Brewtus III) from a local suppler (just over US$2,000).

* An ECM Mechanika III, with a tank and a vibration pump - which the manufacturer will sell to me at wholesale price, since they don't have a Hong Kong agent (just under US$1,500 plus shipping).

The Fiorenzato seems like a decent price for what the reviews say is a great and reliable machine (and the rotary pump is nice).
The Expobar seems like a good deal for a double boiler - but although most reviews are very positive about the Brewtus models there would seem to be some concerns about quality. There are many more reviews to be found for that machine though - so perhaps that's why?
The ECM is referred to as the "Rolls Royce" of espresso machines but marketing aside, there seems to be very few owners or reviews out there. It's a very good price though.

I should say I make 2-3 large-ish cappuccinos every morning and a couple of espressos in the afternoon. Occasionally much more when we have guests. In any case - either of these machines would be fine for my needs and a double boiler might even be overkill.

Any comments or advice?

Thanks!
Claus

Claus,

The hard thing about answering your question is that hardly anyone has first hand experience at all three. BTW, What grinder are you using?

As a Volante owner, I've been quite happy with my machine especially after installing Eric's adapter. Eric's adapter though has shown me how variable the heat output can be if I'm slightly off on my timing. Hx flushing in a plumbed in unit is a breeze and even more so when your drip pan is plumbed, tho I still use a cup for initial flush so I can rinse the PF after pulls and a bowl for wiggle rinsing to keep the drain lines cleaner. STILL, I got envious when visiting another members house and saw his Vibiemme double boiler in action. In a word effortless, another word quiet - more than the Volante. Not that this would decide MY purchase but the Volante has some ratings described by one vendor as:

And, to boot, this machine has an ETL rating for NSF 4 and UL 197 - the highest electrical and safety standards which allows it to be used inside restaurants and cafes. In fact, most local health departments not only request it, but require NSF approval. ETL Approval assures you the factory and machine production is inspected every three months for providing high quality and high safety standards.

How easy is it for you to get parts and service on any of these machines, should be a consideration. Sooner or later something will go wrong "what can go wrong will go wrong". Mine has already been in the shop. Brewtus has a big following and you've probably found a ton of web information on it. It is up to you to know how precise your taste buds will be to incremental changes in the temperature of the pull. I'm not sure I have the "right stuff" BUT I would like to have more accuracy hitting that method that gets me that sweet shot I love from the beans I love. For me its a combo of my method and I believe my temp control and a PID double boiler would remove one more variable. If you haven't already, do a search off my name and you'll find a pictorial thread I posted on the Volante and other hopefully helpful remarks. Mike McKoffee is also an excellent, highly knowledgeable source.

Again, what grinder are you using? It will make a BIG difference with all of these machines.

E

Hi Ed,

Thanks for your comments. Your "Fiorenzato Volante, another look" was actually one of the posts I've read earlier as part of my research - and I found it very helpful! In fact, should I end up with a Volante I'm sure that I'll revisit that post several times for tips.

My grinder is a stepless Macap M4. I had the luck to come across a guy here in Hong Kong who had one he had never really used for sale for less than US$200. Now I'm trying not to blow my savings on the grinder on a more expensive espresso machine

Claus

Good for you Claus, when I started writing the reply I saw that I could no longer see your list of equipment on the post a reply page, so that's why I was asking. Are there places that service any of these machines in Hong Kong? I too had a Gaggia Classic, I ran it into the ground after a couple of rebuilds, glad to see you're taking the forward leap rather than the sideways one I did into a Silvia.

Well, service is potentially a bit of a problem as you never really can tell with these Hong Kong agents.

Both the Expobar and the Fiorenzato vendors are dedicated coffee and espresso equipment vendors though - so I guess that's as good as it gets around here. The ECM could pose a problem if the machine needs a major overhaul but I have no doubt that spare parts would be easily obtainable from the manufacturer (and they say they'll supply spare parts for free within the warranty period).

The safest bets for service would be for me to move up another notch and get a Dalla Corte Mini or a La Spaziale S1 - both from good local vendors. These are both very nice machines but both beyond the US$2,000 range...

Hi Claus,

I wouldn't worry much about service problems. I'd be willing to bet Paul Pratt here in Hong Kong can fix just about anything! He certainly did a service on my friends ECM.

Cheers,
Chris

Hi Chris,

Yeah, I've come across Paul's restoration page - and it was actually a guy from his company Just-Java who wanted to sell me a Dalla Corte Mini in stead of a heat exchanger machine

A good point though, which means either machine I'm looking at would still be an option...

Whats the damage on a new Dalla Corte Mini in HKD?

Cheers, Chris

HK$22,500 - including a "professional barista toolkit".

Claus

If you can afford it and like the look of it, go for the Dalla Corte! I have heard first hand from some people that know far more than me that they are excellent. Having said that, budget always come into play. Of the other options, I previously had an e61 and they are great. Mine was a plumbed in rotary ECM, but made in Italy rather than Germany so effectively a different company. It sounds like you have the ability to plumb in, if this is the case, its a real luxury and should definitely factor into your decision making.

Good luck, Chris