mrgnomer wrote:One thing about the S1 vs. the Brewtus is the brew boiler sizes and rotary vs. vibe pump. From what I understand a rotary pump can run longer than a vibe pump without overheating so it would be easier to flush the boilers on the S1 as opposed to the Brewtus. I don't know but wouldn't you have to do some fiddling to flush out the Brewtus' boilers?

True the S1 brew boiler is only 0.45L vs 1.7L on the Brewtus so would need less flushing.

mrgnomer wrote:From what I understand a rotary pump can run longer than a vibe pump without overheating so it would be easier to flush the boilers on the S1 as opposed to the Brewtus. I don't know but wouldn't you have to do some fiddling to flush out the Brewtus' boilers?

It's true, a rotary can run continuously, a vibe pump needs one minute of rest for every minute of operation. Flushing down Brewtus in one fell swoop would require considerable patience (I tried once and got bored with it). I'm still hoping a Brewtus owner will try the blind side-by-side taste test proposed in Tasted Your Reservoir Water Lately? to gather some objective data.

JonR10 wrote:Having a plumbed in rotary pump has made a big difference for me. My (HX) machine is actually run from a flojet with 5-gallon water bottles, so I replace a bottle and empty my drainwater about once a week now (instead of filling and emptying every day).

5 gallons of water a week for espresso

JonR10 wrote:I do not have enough direct experience to compare portafilter differences other than to say that the S1's 53mm version is deeper and most users report being able to put slightly more coffee in the basket than in standard-sized 58mm baskets.

Illy writes about the ratio of basket-height to basket-diameter: the taller the column, the more pressure required for proper extraction. How do these two machines compare with respect to pressure profile?

Regards
Timo

Seems like it will be an order of the S1 in a couple of days, but I do not if I had understood the grading of the machine. It got a 8.0 in the exceptional espresso.

Does that mean that there is difficult to get a good shot from it? Or can I with training get very good shots ?

I really enjoy espresso, but most of my visitors drinks milk based drinks and the S1 seems much more wife friendly than a HX machine or even a Brewtus II?


Any suggestions are appreciated.


/ Alf

affas wrote:Seems like it will be an order of the S1 in a couple of days, but I do not if I had understood the grading of the machine. It got a 8.0 in the exceptional espresso.

Does that mean that there is difficult to get a good shot from it? Or can I with training get very good shots ?

Quite the contrary to the former and yes to the later, that's a high espresso quality score!

I really enjoy espresso, but most of my visitors drinks milk based drinks and the S1 seems much more wife friendly than a HX machine or even a Brewtus II?

I'd agree S1 more wife friendly than HX yes but Brute probably equally friendly as S1, except of course for filling the reservoir (unless you get the direct plump option.) OTOH an HX can be quite wife friendly too. I came up with a reliable repeatable routine for Debi that's based on flush volume not flash and counting of any kind.

emperorma wrote:
4. S1 can be plumbed in and has a rotary pump for quietness. Huge advantage to S1.

I'm surprised that no one commented that the BII could be plumbed in using a float switch or refilled from 5 gal carboy with a small pump and fill sensor. Might not be as simple as a "plug and play" water connection on the S1, but certainly doable. (i.e. an advantage but hardly huge)

I'm also PID'd OPV'd Silvia owner looking to upgrade. Primarily as (a) shot temp drift in a series of shots and (b) intra shot fluctuation which I'd blame on a small (350ml?) boiler taking on room temperature water at the start.

After talking with a member of this board, I'm going to spend a day at Intelligentsia's training in Chicago or maybe somewhere else if the group recommends a better program for a 'home user' and move up to a different machine.

I'd probably get a GS3 if it were available just to 'be done with it' but don't want to wait another year or more for the machine. So, In the quest for 'best temperature control and stability' it looks like the choices are a S1 or Brewtus that I'd need to modify to run off a PID since I don't want a 1.8 degree step between temperature choices. For the Brewtus, i'd also have to add a rotary. I'd plumb both units into an existing filtered water system.

When I compare the two, it seems like the S1 would still be at a temperature stability disadvantage as I believe it takes fill water directly into its relatively smaller 450 ml brew boiler whereas the Brewtus II takes the fill water and 'HX preheats' it in the steam boiler then adds it to a significantly larger 1.7L brew boiler. Based on the 'Brewtus Compendium' it looks like its curves are darn near flat (when PID'd) and are about as close to a GS3 as one would get.

I wonder if the group agrees or disagrees with the above?

One more question. It seems the group is split between E61 for preinfusion and S1 for PF depth to better control channeling. Assuming one had ideal grind and distribution, and assuming there was a source that delivered water at any fixed given temperature that one wanted, and could supply it for as long as they wanted, which group head would you send it to (S1 vs E61)?

Fon

scotth wrote:After talking with a member of this board, I'm going to spend a day at Intelligentsia's training in Chicago or maybe somewhere else if the group recommends a better program for a 'home user' and move up to a different machine.

I think taking a class is a great idea.... but not so sure it will help narrow your machine choices. Classes are typically more about the science of the process and the mechanics of the espresso drink building, as they should be. You will discuss machines a bit, but my guess is you will only play on BIG commercial machines. As for class recommendations, where in the world are you (consider updating your profile to include your location)? And do you travel?

Counter Culture Coffee offers some classes, not sure how they compare to Intelligentsia's offering. I have taken their Basic Espresso class,

I know Murky was going to offer some classes in D.C.

Also, there are WBC competitors (and champions) and other baristas that also offer training.

Back to the machines... based on your comments, I assume you are only interested in the double boiler camp? You know you can hit ANY temp you want on an HX, just not as consistently without lots of practice, tweaking, measuring, etc.

I am based in Canton, Ohio and yes I travel. I'll be in Scottsdale Arizona the second week of January, San Antonio, TX the last week of January, San Diego the third week of February and San Francisco, CA some week in between.

I guess I'm doing "S" cities for the next 8 weeks or so.

Yes, I know that there are many capable baristas that with the correct HX machine, practice, and maybe a probe in the E61 can hit to 1 degree F fairly consistently. I think I'm looking to be able to get there without the guesswork. I really like the idea of setting PIDs, and either nailing the shot to .5 degree or better or simply pulling a 2 or 3oz flush then always knowing I'm right where I want to be.

Now if someone points me a to HX / Rotary (and at a substantial savings) that can get me to .5 of desired temp at the same level of intra shot temp stability as the dual PID / dual boiler rotaries, I may be swayed. If the costs are "in the same neighborhood" I think I'd rather go dual boilers.

FYI, grinder is a Mazzer Major and roaster is a Frankentop: http://home.att.net/~Scott.Harroff/FrankenTop.JPG

Dooglas wrote:I'm surprised that no one commented that the BII could be plumbed in using a float switch or refilled from 5 gal carboy with a small pump and fill sensor. Might not be as simple as a "plug and play" water connection on the S1, but certainly doable. (i.e. an advantage but hardly huge)

This is interesting, all the Brewtus II machines sold in the UK (and i think Europe) can be plumbed in or tanked operation. There is a lever on the bottom of the machine that you move to select "plumbed" or "tanked". The Brewtus II has a hose that simply screws to the mains water connector/pressure reduction valve. I am surprised the US models don't have this capability??