Hiya!

I've been fortunate enough to land myself upon a used Royal that happen to be in immaculate condition. I've been using it non-stop the past few weeks and have definitely noticed a massive difference in my shots, everything is just much more transparent compared to the Rocky I've been using prior to this. I was thinking, how far can I stretch to get the best out of my Royal? Of course, this is also partly due to my frustration with an 03' Gaggia Classic that I've lived with for a few years now. Sure, it's a great machine to start with and learned heaps with it but I'm feeling it's time to get an upgrade, and when better than now with the Royal here and all.

I'm looking at a few DB's and seems like the Silvano is the cheapest one within that category that's possible within my budget (1000-1500). Though I'm tempted to save up a few months more to get something along the lines of an R58/Leva DB, I'm wondering whether this is worth the stretch?

What machine would you pair with the Royal?

johnnyfruschy wrote:What machine would you pair with the Royal?

The Royal is basically a Major on steroids. It would do justice for any espresso machine. (Large conical versus large flat burr discussion omitted!) Right now I'd pair it with a Vesuvius.

Compass Coffee wrote:The Royal is basically a Major on steroids. It would do justice for any espresso machine. (Large conical versus large flat burr discussion omitted!) Right now I'd pair it with a Vesuvius.

Compass Coffee wrote:The Royal is basically a Major on steroids. It would do justice for any espresso machine. (Large conical versus large flat burr discussion omitted!) Right now I'd pair it with a Vesuvius.

I've seen the Royal? What is the actual difference? Is it faster or something? I would imagine anything faster than the Major would be way too staticky. (I've used a Kony, I thought it was similar to the Major in speed... the robur is a second or two faster.. never used a Royal though.)

By on steroids referring to more powerful 900w versus 650w motor while at the same time slower rpm 1050 versus 1600 and weighing in only 2# less than a Robur at 60# for the Royal versus 40# a Major. I have no direct usage experience with the Royal (lots with Majors) but with its bigger motor and slower rpm would have higher usage capacity without heating up. Home use wouldn't make a difference other than being one BIG mutha!

Compass Coffee wrote:The Royal is basically a Major on steroids. It would do justice for any espresso machine. (Large conical versus large flat burr discussion omitted!) Right now I'd pair it with a Vesuvius.

Thank you for the reassurance! Although, I can't afford a Vesuvius now but I'll interpret that as; yes, stretch your dough for the best machine you can buy haha.

LukeFlynn wrote:I've seen the Royal? What is the actual difference? Is it faster or something? I would imagine anything faster than the Major would be way too staticky. (I've used a Kony, I thought it was similar to the Major in speed... the robur is a second or two faster.. never used a Royal though.)

I believe the Royal shares the same chassis as the Robur, so it looks the same. Little things in the internals account to the 2lb difference if I'm not mistaken.

The Silvano is not a DB, it's a "hybrid." It's a pretty good shot puller, but not a great choice for someone who does much milk and/or entertaining.

Once you reach a certain level of machine competence, quality in the cup tends to be far more about the grinder than the machine. After about $1300 -- the cost of a BDB -- you're buying production capacity, ergonomics, steaming power, recovery time, fit and finish, appearance, "touch," counter top "presence," and so on. You can't pull a better shot... at least not a better "straight pump" shot.

Shots from lever and "pressure profiling" machines (like the Vesuvius) can have a little more "layering" than shots from straight pump machines. Some people love that, but it doesn't do enough for me to consider one -- partly because dialing in for grind and temp is as much process as I care to offer any given coffee. That's an observation, not a recommendation.

The R58 is a nice machine, but not the end all be all of mid-sized, switchable, rotary, semi-automatic, higher-end, prosumer, E61 DBs -- a group which includes representatives from Alex, Lucca, Profitec, Quick Mill, Vibiemme, as well as Rocket. As you can see, most of the relevant aspects are subsumed by the class description.

And let's not forget the four prosumer, La Spaziale DBs, which for all their differences compared to the other makers' machines, do a similar job in a similar way.

Unless there's something about one machine or another that really catches your eye, you might as well throw darts.

Rich

Judging by my Major, I am confident you could pair this grinder with just about any prosumer machine and get great results.

boar_d_laze wrote:The Silvano is not a DB, it's a "hybrid." It's a pretty good shot puller, but not a great choice for someone who does much milk and/or entertaining.

Once you reach a certain level of machine competence, quality in the cup tends to be far more about the grinder than the machine. After about $1300 -- the cost of a BDB -- you're buying production capacity, ergonomics, steaming power, recovery time, fit and finish, appearance, "touch," counter top "presence," and so on. You can't pull a better shot... at least not a better "straight pump" shot.

Shots from lever and "pressure profiling" machines (like the Vesuvius) can have a little more "layering" than shots from straight pump machines. Some people love that, but it doesn't do enough for me to consider one -- partly because dialing in for grind and temp is as much process as I care to offer any given coffee. That's an observation, not a recommendation.

The R58 is a nice machine, but not the end all be all of mid-sized, switchable, rotary, semi-automatic, higher-end, prosumer, E61 DBs -- a group which includes representatives from Alex, Lucca, Profitec, Quick Mill, Vibiemme, as well as Rocket. As you can see, most of the relevant aspects are subsumed by the class description.

And let's not forget the four prosumer, La Spaziale DBs, which for all their differences compared to the other makers' machines, do a similar job in a similar way.

Unless there's something about one machine or another that really catches your eye, you might as well throw darts.

Rich

I'm actually impressed at the level of conciseness of this post, you managed to clear up all of my initial concerns. Thank you so much.

I'm currently looking at the Vivaldi II, the plumbing requirements is not much of a concern for me. Currently reading up on shot differences between E61 and spaziale's.