Hi HB,

I've had a Gaggia Classic for about 9 months and I've been back and forth about upgrading it but I'm at a point where it's not a matter of if or when but what. I don't want to talk about grinders here. I have a Vario that I know isn't quite up to par for what I'm getting into but I'm most interested in getting a different machine first, then I will most likely be looking at a Ceado E37S. I've read as many threads as I can and here's what my needs come down to:

1) I want to be able to pull and steam at the same time
2) I enjoy hosting guests so I need a machine that can make 3 - 4 milk drinks back to back. Most of what I make will be milk drinks although I do enjoy straight espresso and americano myself, especially in the morning to save time. So for my personal use 50/50 but guests will tip that scale towards milk drinks.
3) I'm OCD, so consistency is important. Shot timers, PID's, Dual Boilers are all very encouraged.
4) Money is an object but I realize there's a need to spend a certain amount to get the results desired and quench the upgraditus. I guess I'm looking for the happy medium of spending the most before I get into diminishing returns.

I'm open to suggestions but I considered:

QM67 - Seems to be the most reasonably priced for what I'm looking for. Steaming capacity could be an issue. May just barely suffice?
QM Lucca M58 / Profitec Pro 700 - May be more realistic to what I'm actually looking for and is probably the sweet spot for money spent.
La Marzocco - Linea Mini - Probably the last machine I will ever buy and should be enough to guarantee I'll never have to think about upgrading again.

Thanks in advance for your help and time!

If you are thinking of the Linea Mini and can afford it, buy it and don't look back.

Seriously ... you won't go wrong with that choice. It's a step way above the others. And you won't find yourself selling a compromise machine to buy a Mini later. The upgrade path will cost you more than buying what you really want.

If you want to avoid upgraditis altogether, then yes, Linea Mini all the way!

For a feature packed machine that won't break the bank, and would be a significant step up from your classic, the Breville Dual Boiler is worth a look, and with the savings from the cheaper machine, you could get the E37s you are considering. Not as robust a build, but makes nice shots and steams decently enough. I've had one for 3 years, using daily and don't have any issues. I think most of the problems have been worked out by Breville, and the horror stories you hear about are the exception, not the rule. Plus Breville has a great warrantee and will usually completely replace your machine if there is an issue.

If the build quality scares you off, you could also look at a La Spaziale Dream T or Mini. on par price wise with some of the others you mentioned, if not on the cheaper end, but more robustly built. One of those + E37s would be less money than the mini alone, and would keep you satisfied for a long time, possibly forever.

Dont underestimate the important of aesthetics if you plan on living with the machine for the long run. Do you want a chrome box? The QM V2B or Pro 700 are great choices. The Dream T and Breville are unique in their looks, some love it, others not so much. The Mini probably looks the best, and is the best in terms of build quality. If I had the disposable income I would choose that one for sure, but I went with biggest bang for my buck - BDB + Pharos.

Good luck in your search!

Agree, go with Linea Mini if that's what you really want and wants to keep for a long time. The stainless boilers, plumbing etc are really commercial grade compared to the other option.
LM machines retains its value and the support and parts availability is great. BDB will probably be close in taste but it's not something that you can just hold on for years.

Since the Profitec also has stainless boilers, what specifically about the Linea is higher quality? I'm not disagreeing, I'm just curious. It didn't exist when I purchased my Pro 700.

Hi Jason and fellow Canuck,

Since you want to pull and steam simultaneously, and entertain guests, you're basically looking at an HX or higher-end double boiler.

One word of caution about prosumer DBs. In 110v mode, some of them, such as the Rocket R58, can't fully power both boilers at the same time. In 220v this is a non issue. Search on this site, but I believe I read the QM67 might have the same issue. The BDB, Linea Mini and Gs3 do not suffer from this problem, since they have some clever engineering to get around the power limitations of 120v.

My personal feeling, and this is just my opinion based on my needs (I don't make many milk drinks, mostly straight shots), is that prosumer DBs aren't as good a value as prosumer HXs. I'm not saying they're not good machines and don't serve people well. Just saying I don't think you get as much for your money in the prosumer DB class. In full disclosure, I have an HX E61 and that's sufficient for me. The cooling flush is not complicated once you know how to do it.

However, if money were no object, I would probably get a DB. Well, and a lever. And if I were to get a double boiler, I would either go with the uber value pick, the BDB, or go all in, and get a Linea Mini or GS3 or Speedster or Slayer etc. But that's just me.

Since you're in Toronto, I highly recommend you visit some showrooms in person to see these fine machines up close. Seeing them online isn't even close to touching them, using them and seeing them with your own eyes. Idrinkcoffee is in Milton and Espresso Planet is in Mississauga. I bought all my equipment in person from idrinkcoffee since I live 20 minutes away. Very convenient since that means avoiding shipping hassles for purchase or service.

Good thought on upgrading your grinder. That will be the heart of your new setup. Whatever you decide, the grinders and machines you're considering will be a big jump from your current setup.

Btw, idrinkcoffee has a killer deal on the QM67 right now, $700 off. But again the caveat that I mentioned earlier. Unless someone corrects me and it doesn't have the same design as the R58.

Good luck!

Edit: here's an explanation about the R58 issue in 110v mode
Poor Steaming on Rocket R58 V2

Edit#2: Here's Chris from Chris' Coffee talking about the QM67. He confirms it's not designed to pull and steam at the same time. Read post #64 via this link:
Quick Mill Dual Boiler QM67

....... SURPRISED the VESUVIUS DB with programable pressure profiling , PID and pull-out drip tray has not been mentioned in this discussion , IT IS the same price as the MINI LINEA ; the temp control on the LINEA is reported to be not the greatest , and the faux group paddle is a switch ...... the VESUVIUS has been reviewed to produce shots equal to top of line pro levers ....

Temp control on Linea Mini is spot on and easy as can be. With the Linea Mini the machine is so consistent and straightforward it gets out of the way so you can fine tune your shots. Steaming is commercial quality.

...... might take a look at MARK PRINCE'S short pre-view review in COFFEEGEEK , a balanced reading ....

nuanced wrote:the temp control on the LINEA is reported to be not the greatest, and the faux group paddle is a switch

The Linea Mini definitely plays to the KISS (keep it simple, stupid) crowd; the negative comments I've read are from those who want a digital readout. If that's your thing and you want a La Marzocco, I recommend a GS/3. There are of course lots of E61 double boilers to pick from with digital readouts too.

As for the "faux" switch -- they could have used a rocker switch like the old Lineas. But feedback from pro baristas indicated most prefer the paddle whether It's an MP or an EE, so that's what La Marzocco uses on all their models except the volumetric AV for obvious reasons. For what it's worth, I prefer the ergonomics of the paddle simply because it's impossible to miss without the need to look when brewing/steaming at the same time.