Well first off, this is a request for recommendations for a new espresso machine. Just to get that out of the way!

I am coffee drinker who currently home roasts and brews by pourover. I've been a coffee drinker all my life (read robusta and Charbucks) but only discovered REAL coffee with the arrival of 3rd wave cafes in my city. I also discovered the joys of home roasting and fresh, fresh coffee this year. However, espresso really is my favourite method - short, intense, and which other method gives you crema!

I've done a fair bit of researching on this forum, Coffeegeek, Crema and others, watching Youtube videos by SCG over the past year, learning about grinders and espresso machines, SBDUs, HXs, double boilers. Pretty much enough to follow all the threads I read and appreciate the various viewpoints in debate.

Anyway fast forward to now I managed to find a vendor for my green beans, and a Porlex Mini grinder which I use for pourover. This should keep me happy for quite a while as I explore roasting and the taste profiles of the different beans, but what I would like is to put together an espresso setup so that I can experiment with same beans roasted to different levels and compare them as espresso and brewed coffee.

For espresso grinding, I have decided the the OE Pharos or Lido 2 would be the way to go - I am not afraid of hand grinding, as I started out with a crappy box mill. I actually find the whole ritual of preparing coffee relaxing too Btw OE is willing to ship to Kuala Lumpur.

My question basically starts here: for a newbie who has NO EXPERIENCE making espresso which of the following would you recommend, from a perspective of learning curve vs. potential for the longer term?

Gaggia Classic
LP Europiccola
Arrarex Caravel

Due to budget and availability, the shortlist is made up of machines costing below $600, has a vendor willing to ship to Malaysia and are built to last. For the first two, I am looking at UK vendors and I can enlist a friend residing in Italy to help me find the Caravel.

From what I know, the Gaggia is probably easiest to use, but certain mods need to be done to it before I can get started, i.e. OPV mod, buy proper baskets, depressurize the PF. I gather this is well built, durable design - a "good enough" espresso machine but beyond a bottomless PF, there is only so far the machine can allow me to improve? Is a PID important if I don't plan to steam?

I confess I am more drawn to the other two options. Although they cost more, and may take weeks instead of days to get acceptable shots, I think they have potential to produce better espresso over time. I don't mind a slower learning curve and inferior shots that what I may get on the Gaggia in the first 3 months if I can produce better shots for the next 10 years! I think a proper sized tamper is all I need with both the Europiccola and Caravel?

I understand that espresso is the most demanding method of coffee preparation and manual lever machines are about the hardest to use, so I appreciate any advice on the matter. But it can't be that hard can it?

From my experience with guitars I understand the dilemma of being stuck with inferior hardware which you outgrow in a hurry. Although there are also those who invest heavily in a new hobby but give it up when they lose the interest, I think I am more of the former in terms of perseverance. I have a similar experience with cigars - after the initial learning curve, my palate improved really quickly when I moved on to Cuban cigars.

I am in no hurry to get my espresso set up together and hope to get a solid set up that I can grow with. I am willing to hunt for the Caravel if that's the best option for me. I don't want upgraditis in 12 months!

Btw, I am the only coffee drinker in the house, I don't forsee myself drinking more than 2 espressos a day. I could see myself making maybe a couple of espresso-based milk drinks for friends once a week. I imagine I can get by with a manual milk frother for those drinks!

Sorry for a long post and thanks for any advice!

I picked up the Gaggia Classic about 3 months ago. No experience pulling espresso prior. It took me a few days playing with the grind and prep before I probably pulled an espresso that looked decent coming from a bottomless PF. The adjustments you mentioned for the Classic are fairly easy and painless to make, as I am sure you know since it seems you have done your research.

FWIW, now that it is 3 months later I have greatly improved my shots since I started and still feel I have more room for improvement. Currently I would probably consider what I called 'good' shot 3 months ago a 'sink' shot today. I hope I can say this about the shots I am drinking now in another 3 months.

Quickly on the PID. The PID is not necessary for steaming at all for the classic. It isn't absolutely necessary for pulling shots but it sure is really nice to know where you are starting temp wise. As temp will affect the taste of your shots if it is too high (bitter) or too low (sour). The Classic has a fairly wide temp swing, about +/- 10F, the PID reduces that to +/- 1F. If a PID is something you want to avoid, there is a technique called temp surfing that allows to combat this temp swing.

I am also the only one in the house that drinks coffee consistently everyday. I pull 2+ shots a day. I make milk drinks for myself every once in awhile. If you want your milk to excel with the Classic you should switch out the OEM wand for the Silvia V1 wand. But if your not concerned about it don't worry about it!

I have no experience with lever machines, so my opinion here probably will mean very little. From what I have read there will be a few more variables to deal with and there might be a steeper learning curve, as you already mentioned. OTOH, you will have more control over the extraction. I guess here it depends on how involved you want to be with pulling your shots.

As for potential, I suppose that depends on what your definition of potential is.

Potential in terms of being able to gain skill. I think no matter what machine you decide on there will always be room for potential. Potential as in terms of gadgets. I know that the Classic will allow you to add gadgets, such as the PID. I just recently installed a pressure dimmer on my Classic to allow me to attempt to mimic the pressure profile of a Lever Machine. I say attempt because I do not have it down yet. I also know that there have been some that have install mini computers to control their Classics. There are many here that have been enjoying their Classics for 5+ years. As I am sure there are many that have enjoyed one of the other two machines you mentioned for 5+ years.

I cannot comment whether these additional gadgets are possible to add to a Lever Machine, as I have not looked into Lever Machines too much.

I apologize for the long response without having a direct concrete answer for you, but I am not sure if there is one. (As this is how it always seems in the espresso world . at least to me)
Hope this helps a little bit.

I think that when you are starting out, the most important thing is to work with a machine that allows you to easily adjust variables and learn what difference they make, and then repeat that performance in subsequent shots. The reason this is so important is that a big part of the learning curve is learning to associate variations in technique with their impact on flavor. If your shots are all over the map because your machine can't easily be controlled, then you are going to find the process quite frustrating.

With that out of the way, I will say that I have not used the Gaggia, but I would be skeptical that it can deliver consistent enough results to make the learning curve pleasant. On the upside, it is a small investment and there is a very active user community.

I have not used the Pavoni, but I do use a closed boiler lever as my primary machine (an Elektra MCAL), and I will say that temperature management on these also requires a bit of finesse. They are capable of fantastic shots, as I and many others on the forum can attest, but I think new users would find the process a bit hard to handle.

That is why I am leaning towards recommending a Caravel to you. True, you can't steam milk, but if that is a priority you can pick up a Bellman steamer to compensate. The Caravel gives you incredibly easy temperature control, through the simple expedient of a digital probe thermometer in the kettle. They are still fairly inexpensive, and they are incredibly well built machines that will be easy for a novice to take care of. Finally, they are notably forgiving; both high pressure and low pressure shots can taste very good (although you will note that they celebrate different qualities in your coffee), and regulating shot time is not as important as on many pump machines. And in terms of "potential," once you learn your craft you can play with temperature and even do some pressure profiling in order to bring out the best in each of your coffees. Finally, just like with the Gaggia, there is a very active user community here (check out this thread for a start: The Arrarex Caravel), who can help you out as you learn the ins and outs of your new machine.

I've said it before, but I really think the Caravel/Pharos combo pretty much maximizes the shot quality to cost ratio.

Hi Tom,

Thanks for taking time for your long reply and insight into your own journey. I'm glad to head that they sky is the limit for anyone looking to mod and further the capabilities of the Classic! Mini computers! What next! The pressure dimmer sounds very interesting. I will look that one up.

IntrepidQ3 wrote:FWIW, now that it is 3 months later I have greatly improved my shots since I started and still feel I have more room for improvement. Currently I would probably consider what I called 'good' shot 3 months ago a 'sink' shot today. I hope I can say this about the shots I am drinking now in another 3 months.

Thanks for sharing this! Sound like you are learning fast and the horizon is just opening up before you! That was exactly how I felt going into cigars. A year in I couldn't go back to the ones I started off on (though I will maintain they are good cigars for beginners, but I digress). I hope I can have the same experience with espresso when its my turn!

[creative nickname] wrote:That is why I am leaning towards recommending a Caravel to you. True, you can't steam milk, but if that is a priority you can pick up a Bellman steamer to compensate. The Caravel gives you incredibly easy temperature control, through the simple expedient of a digital probe thermometer in the kettle. They are still fairly inexpensive, and they are incredibly well built machines that will be easy for a novice to take care of. Finally, they are notably forgiving; both high pressure and low pressure shots can taste very good (although you will note that they celebrate different qualities in your coffee), and regulating shot time is not as important as on many pump machines. And in terms of "potential," once you learn your craft you can play with temperature and even do some pressure profiling in order to bring out the best in each of your coffees. Finally, just like with the Gaggia, there is a very active user community here (check out this thread for a start: The Arrarex Caravel), who can help you out as you learn the ins and outs of your new machine.

I've said it before, but I really think the Caravel/Pharos combo pretty much maximizes the shot quality to cost ratio.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the solid feedback and the link. The Caravel would be the "heart" choice of the three for me as I love vintage stuff. Good to hear that it will be more forgiving to use than the Europiccola. The only issue with the Caravel would be finding one on ebay or maybe through my contact in Italy!

Hi Zammie,

Good to see you here! We spoke briefly on the blog about coffee grinders if you remember.

I second the Caravel option too since you seem to appreciate a good tasse of espresso (Not many does that here as far as I can observe). IMO, Caravel will pull the best shots among three (On par with La Pavoni EP), but much more consistently. My experience was with Gaggia Carezza & Evolution (Similar to Classic), Cremina (Some say it's a royal EP in suit) and Caravel.

Only thing is that Caravel doesn't steam (but you're not) and the shot volume is small (Barely 30 ml). You can coax longer shot but it will suffer in quality. Short sweet black it is!

If you would like, we could probably have a meet up for hand-on Caravel over one of the weekends, provided my friend who booked the Caravel doesn't mind. She still hasn't picked it up (it's cleaned and in a box now) but I could ask her.

I love seeing the Caraval's when their popularity starts to drift and prices come down. One day, I will end up with one, when the time is right. Such awesome little units.

Hi Sam,

Good to see you here! Very generous of you to offer. I sent you a PM btw, did you notice?

Yeah sounds like the Caravel might be the way to go. Just the perils of eBay to get through! still I would like to hear other viewpoints. Any votes for the LP?

Hi Tom,

In an idea coffee world, everyone should own a lever! Maybe a Caravel or a Cremina

Hi Zammie,

I think that caravel is doing the best espresso for the money and if buy it you can't go wrong.
Millenium LP europiccola (with pressostat) is not too bad and good thing is that you can make very good tasting cappuccinos as well.

It needs one hole steam wand tip and latte art is working as well.

As a newbie don't get the old one without pressostat, it is way too difficult to manage the temperature.

Cremina is investment for the life! I think the best home machine but expensive.

[creative nickname] wrote:I've said it before, but I really think the Caravel/Pharos combo pretty much maximizes the shot quality to cost ratio.

I'll have to second that. If you can find a Caravel in good condition, it's pretty easy to use. The open boiler lets you check the temperature really easily, it's durable, the maintenance and cleaning is easy and straightforward, the footprint is quite small AND the shots taste great. It is my first espresso machine and I don't regret the purchase one bit. Especially paired with the Pharos, you'd be getting an amazing combo for around 600$. Also, I find it's a great joy to make espresso without much noise and to be able to feel everything from the grinding to the actual brewing process.