Much like many users at this site, I started with a Krups brand steam "toy" machine. At the time, I would use my whirly blade grinder on store bought beans and thought to myself how great my lattes and cappuccinos tasted. I soon realized, with help from these sites, that there was much more out there that could make my life easier and my espresso better. So I purchased a Gaggia New Baby and Cunill Tranquillo grinder as the next stop on my path to espresso nirvana. It was an immediate bump in drink quality and led me to home roasting. I thought for sure that would take me to the next level of espresso nirvana. However several machine factors quickly became frustrating for me.

(1) My wife, family, and friends like milk based drinks. The Gaggia is a good steamer for 1 possibly 2 small cappuccinos, but quickly becomes a pain for large latte size drinks that a lot of people I know enjoy.

(2) The wait time between brewing and steaming when making multiple drinks is a drag. With the drinks that I make using the Gaggia quickly just become something I did not enjoy to use for more than one drink.

I recently upgraded to Bezzera BZ02 machine and I find that the machine trumps the Gaggia in many ways. The espresso is better, the steaming is better, plus there is no wait and it can easily steam larger quantities of milk. It has put the joy back into making espresso drinks for others and for myself. I may still be on my honeymoon period with the new machine but I don't think that I will outgrow it anytime soon. For my use and the drinks that I prepare it works perfect.

The choice of machine is ultimately a personal decision that revolves heavily around what type of drinks you like and will routinely make. I thought the Gaggia would be okay but quickly realized that I was asking too much of it. Others may find it a perfect machine and never see the need to upgrade. It really depends on you and what you value. Next on my upgrade list is a new grinder with less static issues...

jcoleman08 wrote:I am left wondering how the temperature stability issue would rear its head in a single boiler with an aluminum tank (e.g. the Gaggia Classic) vs a single-boiler with a brass tank (e.g. the Silvia), and how a PID would level this difference.

If you're thinking PID-- and many Silvia/Gaggia owners invariably do --then I recommend thinking long and hard about the next step up. When you factor in the cost of a PID for a single boiler, you're within striking distance of an entry level HX espresso machine. As you noted, it's not just about simultaneous steaming/brewing; generally speaking, the next tier is also more consistent and more forgiving of errors in barista technique.

For what it's worth, had someone offered me this advice at the start of my espresso journey, I would have patiently listened and then gone for the lower-cost option, believing fully that they were overstating their case. My original advice stands: If you can afford it and think you'll be in the game two years from now, skip the single boiler.

As a side-note, I wrote the Rancilio Silvia Flash Review eight years ago. Here's an excerpt from the conclusion:

HB wrote:If you see yourself preparing lots of cappuccinos or lattes, you may want to consider a heat exchanger (or dual-boiler) espresso machine. However, for a drink or two, a heat exchanger or dual boiler borders on overkill. Again, putting the temperature surfing issue aside for a moment, the most important consideration is whether you want to serve successive milk-based drinks.

If the answer is yes, then Silvia is not a good fit. If you are very focused, you can prepare milk-based drinks for four people in 20-25 minutes. I found it became more chore than pleasure, so I limited group service to three people (myself included). After upgrading to a heat exchanger espresso machine, I never wait for it, independent of group size. To be clear, I can recommend Silvia if you're willing to work a little harder and don't mind the inherent delays. If you decide later to upgrade, its resale is very good.

My opinion has changed over the years, not only because I've been exposed to a wider range of equipment, but because the mid-tier has moved downward in price while the entry-level tier has remained the same or gone up, depending on model and whether you consider a PID a "must have".

Definitely a good point. However, the 800esxl is known to be thoroughly terrible on *every* shot (it is said that it cannot hold its temp for more than a second or two, often varying as much as 30 degrees over the course of a 2 oz. pull). The only work-around I have found that makes it halfway decent is to microwave the water before I pull a shot, which I know it not only a real pain, but can really damage the internal components (thus I have only done it a couple of times). Every other thing I have tried yields similar results.

I appreciate all of the feedback here, but like a typical newbie I am sure, I am tripping over the ~ +80% price difference barrier of the HX machine. For me, I will be making only two latte's 99.9% of the time, thus I don't have a need to serve groups. Plus, price-wise, I was comparing the Gaggia Classic with PID with a PID-less Silvia.

And, I agree that I will probably upgrade in a year or two. However, for right now, I have an awesome grinder, beans I am paying a lot of $$$ for, and a machine that is serving me up swill every day. I am fine re-buying in a couple of years (or even in one year) when I know what I am doing, but for right now, this isn't fun and the coffee is not good. I am not trying to go that extra 10%, I am just trying to hit "good" (from mediocre to yuck). To put it another way, I am not trying to go from a Porsche Boxter to a 911, I am just trying to get out of the '72 Super Beetle.

Additionally, since the Gaggia's and the Silvia have such good resale values (I saw a four year old Silvia go for $540 on ebay the other day, crazy), I figured they would be a safe bet knowing a severe and acute case of upgraditis was probably coming.

Again, I do sincerely appreciate all of the help and comments. I have learned a lot from this forum, and for that I am very grateful.

I am able to pull very good shots on my daughter's Gaggia Classic with a Le'Lit grinder. I believe that it is an excellent value, from time to time available for as little as $399. Also it can be mated at some online sites with a Baratza Vario grinder at a significant price reduction.

If I were going to buy a pump machine in this price range I would buy the Classic. If I were going to buy a lever I would buy a Ponte Vecchio Lusso, and probably have a machine that I would be satisfied with for a number of years - if the manufacturing defects that appear from time to time in the Lusso have been worked out.

Sounds to me like an SBDU machine will fullfill your needs, albeit a bit more work. You can steam the milk for two drinks then pull your shots or vice versa, which won't be that big of a deal if it's once a day. Plus like you said the resale is there so you don't stand to lose much if you upgrade.

good luck.

I agree with Hal. Go with Gaggia Classic with PID if you want pump machine or with Ponte Vecchio if you want lever, although Ponte might cost more...

The thing is, you can learn and enjoy espresso with Gaggia & PID and when ready upgrade in year or two, or perhaps not at all. I would say getting PID is a must.