cannonfodder wrote:Check out ebay, both machines have been around for quite a few years and both show up for a substantial discount now and then. You may have to put a little work into a used machine cleaning it up but if it saves a thousand dollars or more, I would sure do it.

The real prize, if you can find one, is an older pourover vibe Cimbali machine with a sight glass. You will have to tolerate the sound of a vibe pump, so if that is a deal killer for you then stop here. Otherwise, the advantages are that the machine makes espresso every bit as good as the newer model that I have, and it is hard to come up with a repair that a reasonably handy person couldn't do for himself, at home. There are no electronics, only electrical connections, so there's no expensive brain board or autofill circuit to repair or replace. The old Sirai pressurestat is robust, but if you prefer it can easily be replaced with a PID, as I have done. Other than having to replace the solenoid occasionally, there's nothing to replace except for group gaskets.

And, it is not that difficult to plumb in the drip tray and put a float valve in the pourover tank, turning this in to a pseudo plumbed in machine for very little additional cost, although finding the small necessary plastic part to plumb in the drip tray may require some searching.



ken

Thank you guys for your replies!
Chances of me stumbling on an old Cimbali or A3 here in Israel are rather nil. In fact, A3 is not officially sold here, wonder if even one has reached the holy land. Cimbali on the other hand, is well known here in many cafes and also Junior is sold (pourover S for $2200, plumbed DT for $2800) with 2 yr parts/labor warranty by the distributor.
Therefore, I can only get a new A3 with buying from say, espressCoffeeShop.com (for EUR 2100 == $3000 inc' shipping). This, w/o any warranty.

If A3 came with same 2yr parts/labor warranty I'd certainly BUY IT (looks do that to me)
But as it seems in my local reality, it boils down to either marrying the unfaithful exotic beauty or the reliable girl next door.

Logic tells me that Cimbali is the only reasonable choice. But logic is not the only guideline when buying such a machine, in the first place. Its something else...

I hope you are budgeting for a good grinder. I'd suggest you get an original Cimbali Max, which should be available to you. You can easily modify it to eliminate the autogrind function, and on balance it is a nicer grinder than the hybrid Max sold here, as it is much less noisy in operation plus the adjustment knob is nicer to use, although it won't fit under kitchen cabinets.

Perhaps you can get a package deal on it combined with the Junior. I'd suggest the DT1 rotary over the current pourover.

ken

ranweiss wrote: In fact, A3 is not officially sold here, wonder if even one has reached the holy land...

The following site hasn't change for a couple of years and as I understand it might be out of date. Anyway, they've imported Elektra machines to Israel and I saw the machine at cafes here in Israel. The T1 is advertised there with a price:

http://www.bristot.co.il/agalleries%20preview/c2450.php

I heard that these other guys are the master importers of Elektra here now, as they state in their site:

http://www.interpreq.co.il/category.asp ... 0&AdCat=30

but it might be only for the domestic line of Elektra. Elektra's domestic machines are sold here regularly and I am sure you can talk to an importer to get you an A3, maybe with some kind of warranty. I am sure that if you'll have an A3 that will need a fix in the future and there will be no importer for it then there are several places here that will fix it for you if you won't do it yourself. It is not difficult to get parts from abroad.

If you get a deal for the A3 here it would be nice to hear about it.

Nice to know I'm not alone... I've been to Interpreq. They rather sell Cimbali or the home Elektra products.
Btw, they sell an old Junior for around $1500:

It comes with 3 month warranty

I just recently bought a Macap M4 stepless, as a kick start. I have to wait for a decent machine to really try it out.

I've talked to a distributor and asked about Elektra's commercial machines here. I was told that the first company I've mentioned above is still in business here and supply Elektra's to cafes that serve Bristot coffee here. I understood that you can get any Elektra model from them with full service. This distributor I talked to is in business with them. He told me that if they tell you they only sell to cafes that serve their coffee then you can order from them through him even models they don't have in stock right now. If you wish to talk to him check out Amigo, they also sell La Cimbali:

http://coffeeman.co.il/

ranweiss wrote:Nice to know I'm not alone... I've been to Interpreq. They rather sell Cimbali or the home Elektra products.
Btw, they sell an old Junior for around $1500:


It comes with 3 month warranty

I just recently bought a Macap M4 stepless, as a kick start. I have to wait for a decent machine to really try it out.

This is an old plumbed in "D" model with a vibe pump. I believe it is overpriced, or would be overpriced in the US market, unless, maybe, it was very lightly used (and completely overhauled) and was supplied with a much longer warranty, say at least a year or two.

ken

Good to have your comment, Ken. I really prefer a volumetric pump, they sound better (to me) and seen to last longer.

Btw, I assume the A3 has a volumetric pump, since it is a plumb machine?

As for buying A3 from a Israeli distributor, it is around $3800. If I import myself, it turns to be around $3000. Maybe worth the try, taking a "calculated" risk.

ranweiss wrote:Btw, I assume the A3 has a volumetric pump, since it is a plumb machine?

Both the T1 and A3 (single group Elektra "Sixties" machines) are equipped with ROTARY PUMPS; both need to be plumbed directly into the water supply. The T1 is a semi-automatic machine (you turn the pump on and off yourself), while the A3* is an automatic** -- meaning that it is volumetrically DOSED; you turn on the pump, but it shuts off automatically after a programmed (by you) amount of water is dispensed throughthe portafilter.

Cheers,
Jason

* Why it's not called an "A1" is anybody's guess . . .

** This is not to be confused with a "superautomatic" machine in which there is no portafilter per se and the machine does everything . . .

zin1953 wrote:Both the T1 and A3 (single group Elektra "Sixties" machines) are equipped with ROTARY PUMPS; both need to be plumbed directly into the water supply. The T1 is a semi-automatic machine (you turn the pump on and off yourself), while the A3* is an automatic** -- meaning that it is volumetrically DOSED; you turn on the pump, but it shuts off automatically after a programmed (by you) amount of water is dispensed throughthe portafilter.

Cheers,
Jason

* Why it's not called an "A1" is anybody's guess . . .

** This is not to be confused with a "superautomatic" machine in which there is no portafilter per se and the machine does everything . . .

Jason, isn't it the other way around? The T1 is automatic (ie volumetric dosing) and the A3 is semi-automatic (ie you use a lever to turn it on and off)?