As a Newbie this site has been a mine of information on stuff and concepts i never even knew existed,
The conclusion i have come to from all the Pages read so far is to Most definitely keep and repair {but still working} my old 1986 La Pavoni Professional and invest in a new less hit and miss machine, and apart from the best possible upgrade for many Coffee Freaks being a more in tune and understanding Wife i have drawn a shortlist from the above 3 machines
The Visual thought of the Elektra is a work of art, Better than sex, even better than the thought of the Cigarette afterwards, Would love to have that in the Kitchen Has excellent revues on here the only drawback for me is the 6 ltr boiler and one and a quarter hours warm up time for maybe only a couple of drinks, But if that is what is necessary to produce the real thing then i would live with that

The Alex Duetto II although not as stunning visually as the Elektra seems to tick all the right boxes, with some temp control probably practical enough for my wife to use, it would seem to be quit a new machine can it deliver the real thing in the Cup Alot of boxes ticked for a quite low price Has something been compromised

The La Spaziale Vivaldi II seems to be very highly rated and recommended on these forums even though the espresso quality was lower than the Elektra in the review Excuse my ignorance but Does the 53mm portafilter present any problems as everything else now seems to be 58mm
And\can these machines be within reason DIY repaired i spoke to a dealer that stocks both this machine and the Alex and was told that the La Spaziale is more Brand specific on its parts and repairs are more geared up to the Commercial market where an engineer is sent out to repair it

As for the La Pavoni i would say on average the espresso/ Cappuccino i get from that is slightly below that of the average served on big machines in cafe/bars i would hope to be able to increase that slightly at least

The worse Nightmare situation i could imagine is when my Wife finally says "Go on Do what you want Have the damn stupid thing if it makes you happy" i get the machine and the coffee quality falls short of the La Pavoni and i am trying to make up all sorts of excuses as to why i am not using this new machine
Can these Prosumer Machines actually Compete with the Drinks produced by the big commercial machines, unknown territory for me

Londonplug wrote:The worse Nightmare situation i could imagine is... I get the machine and the coffee quality falls short of the La Pavoni.

I think you put too much stock in the contributions of the espresso machine. Without any doubt, all your choices are well capable of producing excellent espresso, assuming they're paired with a solid grinder and good/fresh coffee. Owners will surely chime in with advantage X and Y their gear holds over machine Z, but at this level of equipment, the differences are less in the espresso potential and more in the features/capacity/construction. To put it another way, I would be happy using any of the three espresso machines you're considering. My choice would boil down to personal preferences that may or may not apply to you.

The Elektra A3 and La Spaziale Vivaldi are among the site's reviews. The Duetto is not among the reviews, but presumably it would have espresso performance similar to the plethora of E61 espresso machines already copiously represented (especially the Expobar Brewtus III). The particulars can be pieced together based on consumer reviews on CoffeeGeek and a bit of time with the forum search tips.

For some good recent discussion, check out these threads:

Cimbali or La Marzocco or Elektra or ??

La Spaziale Vivaldi II vs. La Marzocco GS/3

Is the Vivaldi II as ugly as it looks in all the pictures? (CoffeeGeek)

Alex Duetto II vs other rotary pump espresso machines

La Cimbali Junior or Izzo Alex Duetto II

Hope this helps,
Jackson

HB wrote:I think you put too much stock in the contributions of the espresso machine. Without any doubt, all your choices are well capable of producing excellent espresso, assuming they're paired with a solid grinder and good/fresh coffee. Owners will surely chime in with advantage X......

What he said.

To me, a major factor in my purchase was not the machine, but that there is a forum dedicated solely to that machine - plus, a really super manual, linked at the forum.

http://s1cafe.com/

To me, a major factor in my purchase was not the machine, but that there is a forum dedicated solely to that machine - plus, a really super manual, linked at the forum.

For Duetto, I guess this box is ticked by:
http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/

Andy, welcome to HB . . . hope you don't mind a few incoherent, random comments . . . .

Londonplug wrote: . . . the Elektra is a work of art . . (h)as excellent revues on here the only drawback for me is the 6 ltr boiler and one and a quarter hours warm up time for maybe only a couple of drinks, But if that is what is necessary to produce the real thing then i would live with that.

The Elektra A3/T1 doesn't need 75 minutes of warmup time before you can pull a shot; it needs an hour or so to become thermally stable. That is two very different things. I have my T1 on a timer that is set to switch the machine ON at 5:00 am. I get up somewhere between 5:30 and 6:00, and pull my first shot as soon as I walk into the kitchen. It is wonderful! Once it's thermally stable, you can pull shots back-to-back-to-back . . . but it's up to temperature in as little as 30 minutes.

Londonplug wrote:The Alex Duetto II although not as stunning visually as the Elektra seems to tick all the right boxes, with some temp control probably practical enough for my wife to use, it would seem to be quit (sic) a new machine can it deliver the real thing in the Cup Alot of boxes ticked for a quite low price Has something been compromised

Keep in mind that I do not own one, so take the following with a grain of salt. I think the short answer is "no." Nothing of import has been compromised, and this is the only machine of the three that is easily converted back-and-forth between plumbed-in and pourover. Some have said the fit and finish of the Izzo Alex Duetto II isn't quite as good as the Elektra, but I've never heard anyone say that the build quality is lacking.

Londonplug wrote:The La Spaziale Vivaldi II seems to be very highly rated and recommended on these forums even though the espresso quality was lower than the Elektra in the review Excuse my ignorance but Does the 53mm portafilter present any problems as everything else now seems to be 58mm?

Let me ask you a question: why do you think La Spaziale would use a 53mm portafilter? Or rather, do you think they would deliberately select an inferior size that has to be more expensive. (This is a presumption on my part, but if 58mm is the "standard," wouldn't you expect a certain "economy of scale" to result in 58mm parts being less expensive?) In other words, the designers of the Vivaldi felt the 53mm size was beneficial, or they would not have used it. Deeper, more narrow puck versus a wider, more shallow puck . . . both produce excellent results.

Londonplug wrote:And\can these machines be within reason DIY repaired . . .

Depends upon how handy you are at DIY to begin with. It's not "machine specific."

Londonplug wrote:Can these Prosumer Machines actually Compete with the Drinks produced by the big commercial machines(?)

I'm tempted to say that the Elektra A3/T1 is really a commercial machine, rather than prosumer, as clearly are the other two. Or rather, the Elektra is truly the only one that straddles the commercial/prosumer line. Be that as it may, ultimately, Andy, the quality of the drink, is up to you. But you'll not find any shortcomings in any of these machines . . .

HOWEVER, what are you doing for a grinder???

At this level, the quality of your grinder is crucial! You don't mention what grinder you have now, nor what you are considering. Suffice it to say, for the moment, that were you to use an inadequate grinder (or worse, pre-ground), all you'll get in the cup is crap -- regardless of what machine you use.

Cheers,
Jason

Welcome to forums Andy. You did not mention what grinder you have, but I would recommend getting a good grinder first and see what results you get from your current machine. You might like it.

Good grinder is the thing you will need no doubt about it, so that's where you should start. Pair it with freshly roasted beans and see what your current machine delivers.

Londonplug wrote:Can these Prosumer Machines actually Compete with the Drinks produced by the big commercial machines, unknown territory for me

When treated properly, a machine maybe five times less expensive than those you mention can compete with drinks from big commercial machines. Proper treatment meaning mostly good beans and a great grinder.

When treated properly, a machine maybe five times less expensive than those you mention can compete with drinks from big commercial machines. Proper treatment meaning mostly good beans and a great grinder.

akallio

REPLY.......Just a little thought on grinders i notice you are using a Mazzer Mini-E, That is one of the grinders i am considering seems ideal for our sort of use, How are you getting on with that ??, I say that because so many posters have a selection of grinders many costing far more than this one and once again excuse my ignorance and lack of knowledge but a newbie can soon start thinking that his Near divorce causing Grinder investment might not do the job then i would have egg on my face

Thanks to everybody for their advice, Still have Alot to learn but going through this site at least i am now aware of so many things i never knew existed hope one day to be able to return some advice

Actually I'm using my new ProM now, I'm just a bit lazy on updating the signature.

Regarding (new) grinders, I would say that you should be looking at Baratza Vario or something a lot more expensive. Good grinders can be had cheap if you buy used, but then you are looking at less compact ones like Mazzer SJ. I wouldn't maybe recommend Mini-E, because I don't see that it has any advantages over the cheaper Vario in your case. I haven't used one, though...