So I have finally decided I will get a dual boiler machine. I talked to Chris and Jim and here are my options:
Alex Dual Boiler and Mazzer Mini (or similar please recommend grinder also) or Domobar Super Dual Boiler and Mazzer Mini. Another option is the Brewtus. All the same price. I make about 6-10 milk drinks a day.

I really dislike that design. Chris already told me about this machine.

If you will be buying a used Mini I suggest that you consider a used SJ. You can get it cheaper and most opinions suggest it will do a better, more consistent job. I do have a Mini and like it. I have a used SJ on the way.

Michal wrote:I really dislike that design. Chris already told me about this machine.

If you have to have a SMB then I'd go with the Alex but the S1 offers more for less $$.

Presented in the FWIW mode . . . I'd definitely get a better grinder than the Mazzer Mini.

Both companies have reputations for machines which are well made, and both have excellent vendors behind them. Both specific machines are also relatively new to the US market. But you need to seriously consider some

Questions:

1. Is the machine going to be plumbed in, or used as a pourover model? Keep in mind that the Izzo Alex Duetto is easily convertible from pourover to plumbed-in and back and again . . . and again. The Vibiemme is either/or.

2. Is size an issue? The dimensions of the Vibiemme are 10.6" W x 21.0" D x 16.5" H. In contrast, the Izzo Duetto is wider at 14.25", but is nowhere near as deep on the countertop at 16.5"; both machines are 16.5" high. Take a serious look at your countertop and measure out the footprint of both machines ...

Cheers,
Jason

Michal wrote:I really dislike that design. Chris already told me about this machine.

What don't you like about the Vivaldi design? Chris has sold 2500+ Vivaldis due in most part to its modern, high quality design. It doesn't look like a typical E-61 design because it wasn't designed in 1961 with a few electronic parts from 1980 "shoe-horned" in.

I have plenty of space. 3 ft wide, upper cabinet is shorter to make more room. I don't like the black plastic if that was stainless than it would look better. Does the 1 degree Fahrenheit adjustment of the alex make a big difference vs the 1 degree Celcius adjustment of the Vivaldi 2? I have the fridge water connection right next to the coffee bar so I guess I could plumb in.

One never knows. I have a 4 group La Marzocco that works perfectly I got several years ago on ebay. The shipping was more than I paid for the machine. Nuts. Anyway: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI....&item=250353939487

Michal wrote:. . . so I guess I could plumb in.

Haven't you decided that yet??? Pourover v. plumbed-in is a vitally important decision to make early on in the process. (If you can plumb the machine, do it! You'll never look back.)

The bottom line is either the Izzo Alex Duetto OR the Vibiemme Double Domobar is capable of producing espresso of excellent quality, and both have large enough boilers that steam power should not be an issue. (Then again, there are a dozen or two HX machines about which I could say the same thing!) The problems you will face are not with the machine itself -- as I say, both machines are more than capable -- but rather pairing the machine with a top-quality grinder AND matching your skills and ability with the capability of your equipment . . .

The fact that you "really dislike [the] design" of the La Spaziale Vivaldi II because you "don't like the black plastic," and that "if that was stainless than it would look better" has already brought you to the crux of the matter: at this level, since all three machines (the Izzo Alex Duetto, the Vibiemme Double Domobar, and even the La Spaziale Vivaldi II) have the capablity of producing excellent espresso, and since steam power is not an issue, it ends up being all about aesthetics! You have already eliminated an excellent machine, the Vivaldi II, for that very reason. So pick the one you like the LOOKS of most -- after all, it's going to sit on your kitchen counter for years -- and go for it!

Cheers,
Jason

Bernie, you're evil!

Michal wrote:.....I don't like the black plastic if that was stainless than it would look better. Does the 1 degree Fahrenheit adjustment of the alex make a big difference vs the 1 degree Celcius adjustment of the Vivaldi 2? .....

I think people get too hung up on the plastic sides and sadly miss out on one of the best DB machines. To be honest, you don't really notice the sides much since you are mostly viewing the front in most kitchen installations. If you have an "island" arrangement for your machine, the back of the LsSpaziale Vivaldi is absolutely gorgeous and gives a look much closer to what you'd see in a cafe (see photo below):



I had a chrome E-61 and in my opinion the LaSpaziale looks much better in a modern kitchen. In my opinion, the "all chrome" look is way too reflective for a kitchen (chrome is better suited for a bathroom). People are just used to the old chrome E-61 since it's been around so long. But to be honest, I always thought they looked like some device that belongs in the back of a dental office to sterilize equipment. What's with that big honkin' chrome puck on the front?

As far as 1C vs 1F issue you brought up. Nobody has tastebuds that accurate.

bernie wrote:One never knows. I have a 4 group La Marzocco that works perfectly I got several years ago on ebay. The shipping was more than I paid for the machine. Nuts. Anyway: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI....&item=250353939487

Nice, Bernie... I thought about getting an $800 (+ S&H) LM 2 group Linea that needed some serious love before getting my Elektra T1. I've seen the 1 group in person... IMO it's borderline too big.

Of course, I'd be glad to take your GS off your hands, y'know...

Michal wrote:I have plenty of space. 3 ft wide, upper cabinet is shorter to make more room. I don't like the black plastic if that was stainless than it would look better. Does the 1 degree Fahrenheit adjustment of the alex make a big difference vs the 1 degree Celcius adjustment of the Vivaldi 2? I have the fridge water connection right next to the coffee bar so I guess I could plumb in.

The novelty of the stainless/chrome sides wears off after you've removed the hundredth fingerprint. The plastic side covers stay cool & save weight. They used double wall steel panels on the Alex to keep the heat down. The Vibi side panels are known for getting HOT.

Whether or not you can notice the difference between 1*F & 1*C in your cup depends on how highly developed your taste buds are.

The S1V2 does allow you to set the duration of the Pre Infusion or just turn it off, switch off the steam boiler when you don't need it, switch back & forth between 15A mode & 20A mode easily, gives you volumetric water control, easy access for maintenance, a drain plug on the steam boiler & both boilers have removable covers so you never HAVE to fill your machine with acid. No chrome flakes in your puck or E61 grouphead to open up & scrap out & nothing to lubricate after a chemical backflush. It's a clean sheet, modern design which is a rarity in the current upscale espresso machine market.

Okay, I am reconsidering the Vivaldi II and after some research it is pretty much at the top of my list (go figure). My main concerns are quality of machine and quality of coffee. If it makes better coffee than Alex Duetto and DomoDouble than I'll go for it. Is there a triple shot basket for it? How convenient is the hot water? Does the steam arm have good mobility and if not does it impair its steaming ability? For me plumb in or not isn't too big of a deal. I can go either way but obviously plumb is more convenient. Where does the water line connect? Will it work off a refrigerator connection split into 2? Does anyone have pictures of the gray side panels? Can I possibly ask more questions?

All components on the Vivaldi are of the highest quality. Have a look at this review with photos of the inside and then compare it to any E-61.

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf...IIcloserlookv4.pdf

As far as taste goes, all machines you mentioned will deliver great taste. The biggest variables in taste are always beans, grinder and barista skill.

I don't think you'll need a triple basket. The standard double basket gives you about 17g to 18g (more than enough). Most people actually dose less than this.

Hot water is great on the Vivaldi, less on the MiniVivaldi. Steam arm is perfect (same as the commercial S5, only about 1" shorter).

Go with the Vivaldi if you want plumb-in. The MiniVivaldi is a pourover. The Mini comes with a vibe pump and a more limited hot water delivery (in 200ml intervals rather than continuous).

You'll get amazing support as well at the online forum for the Vivaldi (even better than for your Silvia):

http://s1cafe.com

Michal wrote:Okay, I am reconsidering the Vivaldi II and after some research it is pretty much at the top of my list (go figure). My main concerns are quality of machine and quality of coffee. If it makes better coffee than Alex Duetto and DomoDouble than I'll go for it. Is there a triple shot basket for it? How convenient is the hot water? Does the steam arm have good mobility and if not does it impair its steaming ability? For me plumb in or not isn't too big of a deal. I can go either way but obviously plumb is more convenient. Where does the water line connect? Will it work off a refrigerator connection split into 2? Does anyone have pictures of the gray side panels? Can I possibly ask more questions?

I would hope not! I think all 3 machines are capable of making excellent espresso so it really does come down to features & looks.

First the triple basket is scarce at the moment but you can get 18g in the double. You push a button for hot water & the tap will allow a 4 cup measuring cup underneath. The steam wand swings out of the way for easy access to the tap. The steaming power of the S1 is legendary & its dry steam/metal pivot puts the stock set up on a GS3 to shame. The factory stainless flex line attaches underneath the machine. You can run it off a fridge line. Lots of pics & a wealth of information can be found on the S1 website & forum.
http://s1cafe.com/ Check out the Pride Page section for photos of the grey sides & water line attachment point. You will also find good info on various ways to plumb in the S1 as well as photos of various set ups.

Michal wrote:Okay, I am reconsidering the Vivaldi II and after some research it is pretty much at the top of my list (go figure). My main concerns are quality of machine and quality of coffee. If it makes better coffee than Alex Duetto and DomoDouble than I'll go for it. Is there a triple shot basket for it? How convenient is the hot water? Does the steam arm have good mobility and if not does it impair its steaming ability? For me plumb in or not isn't too big of a deal. I can go either way but obviously plumb is more convenient. Where does the water line connect? Will it work off a refrigerator connection split into 2? Does anyone have pictures of the gray side panels? Can I possibly ask more questions?

I'm sure you can but you may have to find the answers for yourself. Some opinions:
1) Nobody can convincingly argue that one of these machines makes "better" espresso. The advantage of a DB is that it delivers brew water at a fairly precise temperature setting, but even that does not guarantee "better" espresso. 1C resolution is fine for mere mortals. A good HX machine will also meet your requirements of "6-10 milk drinks a day".
2) The S1 is a nice looking machine and has a much longer proven track record than the Duetto or DoubleDomo. Chris Coffee is an excellent vendor. Hard to go too far wrong with this machine. The 53mm filter basket size does limit your options, but I wouldn't worry about triple baskets. Just pull two doubles if you want a big gulp latte.
3) Get an electric kettle for hot water. The hot water tap gives you water that's a) too hot and b) been sitting in the boiler for too long. But yes, it's available on the S1 if you insist.
4) Plumbed espresso machines are great. You can tee off the refrigerator line and call it good, but I'd recommend a pressure regulator and a filter/water softener as well (available from CC).

Some great advice on this thread. Good luck with your decision.

RapidCoffee wrote:3) Get an electric kettle for hot water. The hot water tap gives you water that's a) too hot and b) been sitting in the boiler for too long. But yes, it's available on the S1 if you insist.

I use the hot water tap throughout the day so water never gets to sit in there very long. It's very handy for rinsing the p/f or pre warming it if you forget to lock it back in. I use the hot water for press pot brewing & have found that by the time you fill a 24-32 oz container & are ready to pour it into the press the water temp is 200-201*. If you place a cup under the tap & draw water directly onto a digital thermometer probe the hottest temp I've seen is 206*F & that drops off quickly. There is a definite heat loss between the steam boiler & the cup. I see little difference between boiling water in a kettle or on a stove & drawing it from your machine tap as long as you are using the steam boiler water regularly(daily).

So my question still remains. If you make 6-10 milk drinks a day, can plumb it in, and have the option of Alex Duetto, Vilvaldi II, Domodouble Rotary, or Brewtus 3-R, which would you get?