luca wrote:I really don't understand the constant repetition of the "fact" that the vibiemmes have "high quality" components and the expobars do not ... particularly in the case of the dual-boiler versions, which now both seem to use temperature controllers from the same manufacturer.

Frankly, I suspect that it's as simple as people perceiving the VBM as a luxury good because of its higher price and the Expobar as shoddier because it is cheaper.

The insulation of the machine (not the boilers as such) is much better with the Vibiemme than the Brewtus III. I ran them side-by-side and the Vibiemme was very quiet (vibration pump version) and the Brewtus III made more noise. Then the thickness of the boiler walls was according to the sales person thinner on the Brewtus than on the Vibiemme. Performance-wise I did not notice a difference other than the noise level and outside finishing, so due to the huge price difference I opted for the Brewtus-III. I could not see how less noise and a little better outside finish could justify such a huge difference in price.

Sjoerd Jan

Michal wrote:Is the preset offset correct on the Brewt?

Yes it is quite accurate. I measured the temp with the SCACE thermofilter and it corresponds with what is on the display to within 1 degree. Also the temp stability was very well (also on the Vibiemme) giving very consistent shots.

I just brought the pressure down yesterday night adjusting the OPV as it was set to 11 bar and now is back to about 9.5 bar.

Sjoerd Jan

I heard from Todd at WLL that the OPV has been upgraded in Brewtus III. When I get mine I'll open (him/her) up and take some pictures. With thinner boilers, at least if uninsulated, they will respond to changes in temperature faster. I hope the III-R is quiet, than again I doubt Kony will .

In the case of the Brewtus it's untrue because the boilers are insulated. If the boilers are thinner they retain less heat. Lets say you put a piece of tin foil in the oven and a thicker baking tray at 400 for an hour. Take them both out of the oven and you can almost instantly touch the foil but the tray will remain hot for a few minutes. We should test it at the CCC meeting on friday .

I took some pictures yesterday of the internals of the Brewtus III (see bottom part of http://www.home-barista.com/espre...afilter-t9530.html). The OPV has indeed been updated and is not of plastic anymore (the adjustment screw). I have never seen the inside of a Brewtus II, so I cannot compare.

Sjoerd Jan

Michal wrote:In the case of the Brewtus it's untrue because the boilers are insulated. If the boilers are thinner they retain less heat. Lets say you put a piece of tin foil in the oven and a thicker baking tray at 400 for an hour. Take them both out of the oven and you can almost instantly touch the foil but the tray will remain hot for a few minutes. We should test it at the CCC meeting on friday .

Think this through. Suppose you had a liter of water at 250F, enclosed in tin foil. Could you handle that? It's not the boiler, it's the contents.

Uninsulated boilers radiate heat. Although the type of metal and thickness may affect the rate of radiative transfer, this will be minor compared to insulating the boiler. The reason for using thicker metal in boilers is strength, not insulation.

for 99% of buyers - none of these machines will be the gating item
thus the choice is largely an emotional, personal and somewhat irrational one

wrapping this reality in technical detail doesn't change the fundamental truth