Does a "GOOD" electric drip brewer exist? Technivorm? Bonavita? - Page 2

Recommendations for espresso equipment buyers and upgraders.
bobmccarthy
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Postby bobmccarthy » Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:07 pm

Just cheaper ones, but they heat and cool slowly. Had a Cuisinart and a Capresso. The "vorm" must have a big heating unit. It's moving water in what seems like seconds from starting.

I'm drinking a nice Ethiopian Harrar right now, the "blueberrys" are prominent.

bob

Richard
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Postby Richard » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:21 pm

bobmccarthy wrote:. . . The "vorm" must have a big heating unit. It's moving water in what seems like seconds from starting.

The domestic Technivorm brewers in the U.S. are rated at 1,475 watts, which is close to the maximum capacity of a 15-amp household circuit.

The heating element is large and is wrapped around the exterior of a cylindrical copper boiler, quite nicely pictured on this page of George Howell's website.
Richard J. Wyble

Soapbox
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Postby Soapbox » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:36 pm

bobmccarthy wrote:The Technivorm makes excellent coffee, if you treat it like a powered Chemex system. The temp of the water is perfectly regulated as it has a water heater that is much - much larger than the normal drip brewer.

Put the ground coffee in the filter holder (with filter of course). Create a well just like you were doing a pour over.

Turn the machine on, but without the pot depressing the button interlock at the base of the unit.

With the filter cover off and the filter valve in the closed position, put the pot against the machine base to begin the flow of hot water. DO NOT walk away unless you like to cleanup your coffee bar.

When hot water covers the coffee in the filter, pull the pot about 1 inch away from brewing machine to stop the flow of water.

When your preinfusion time is complete, open filter valve to wide open, push pot to brewer to depress button, put cover over filter.

Walk away and do your thing, come back when you want a fine cup of coffee.

far harder to describe than to do.

bob

Sounds like a heck of a lot of work just for a drip pot. Prior to even considering a Techivorm I suggest you look at one where you can get your hands on it and the dozen or so plastic bits you have to put together each time you brew a pot.

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Postby Time_Bandit » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:45 pm

Sounds like a heck of a lot of work just for a drip pot. Prior to even considering a Techivorm I suggest you look at one where you can get your hands on it and the dozen or so plastic bits you have to put together each time you brew a pot.


Not the first time I heard this... a couple of reviews on Coffee Geek mentioned this too - along with one review that mentions the filter holder is a fairly cheap piece of plastic, equivalent to a $3 drip attachment. Interesting.

I will say one thing - for a $300 drip machine, I have never seen such hot / cold reviews and the dichotomy of opinions is not subtle. Which usually means something.

Yes, I will have to get my hands on one first... good point. I am not going to assume anything on this one, it might even take getting my hands on the Brazen and Bonavita too to see what they are like.

keepitsimple
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Postby keepitsimple » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:50 pm

Technivorm: this is as complicated as it needs to be:-

Fill water reservoir, and put the lid on it.

Place paper filter in holder

Add coffee and put lid on filter

Insert Jug

Insert filter (depending on the exact model - with the simplest ones, it just sits on the jug)

Switch on

Do something else for 5 1/2 minutes

pour coffee and drink

Ditto for the Bonavita - except the water reservoir lid is hinged, and there's no filter lid ;o)

If you want anything more elaborate than that - make the coffee manually.

keepitsimple
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Postby keepitsimple » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:58 pm

Soapbox wrote:Sounds like a heck of a lot of work just for a drip pot. Prior to even considering a Techivorm I suggest you look at one where you can get your hands on it and the dozen or so plastic bits you have to put together each time you brew a pot.


Dozen or so ? can you elaborate ? 'Cos I can only count 3 if you include the top of the water reservoir - add a fourth if you want to put a lid on the pot after you've made the coffee.

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jbviau
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Postby jbviau » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:06 pm

Since I haven't used either the Technivorm or the Bonavita, I'm hesitant to contribute, but I thought a wonky-yet-non-enthusiast perspective might be useful [not mine].

In the March 2013 Cook's Illustrated (think America's Test Kitchen) I noticed these two brewers came in #1 and #2. The Technivorm won out by staying within the ideal 195-205 temp. range for 87% of the brew cycle; the Bonavita was there 78% of the time. Flavorwise they tied at 3 stars (max. rating), with the Technivorm's coffee described as "smooth, velvety" and the Bonavita's as "bright, full, more acidic" due to slightly higher brew temp. As a result, the Bonavita is now their "Best Buy" in the auto-drip category.

Here's a brief quote about how they tested temp.: "...we ran two rounds of temperature checks on all of the machines by taping thermocouple probe wires to the center of each brew basket atop the coffee grounds (where the heated water would drip directly on them) and averaged the amount of time the water spent in the optimal zone."
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EricBNC
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Postby EricBNC » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:07 pm

keepitsimple wrote:Dozen or so ? can you elaborate ? 'Cos I can only count 3 if you include the top of the water reservoir - add a fourth if you want to put a lid on the pot after you've made the coffee.

I agree - reading the misinformation in this thread just now, I was wondering when someone would correct the flow.

As Dave mentions, the TV and the BV are dead simple to use out of the box. After tinkering you might develop a tweak or two you enjoy to add more of what you like on a coffee - the adjustments are there for someone to use, most don't though and are very happy.

How many used Technivorm or Bonavita machines do you see in the buy/sell section of coffee forums? There are many thousands of these out there - more would be up for grabs used if they did not simply work.

jbviau wrote:Since I haven't used either the Technivorm or the Bonavita, I'm hesitant to contribute, but I thought a wonky-yet-non-enthusiast perspective might be useful [not mine].

In the March 2013 Cook's Illustrated (think America's Test Kitchen) I noticed these two brewers came in #1 and #2. The Technivorm won out by staying within the ideal 195-205 temp. range for 87% of the brew cycle; the Bonavita was there 78% of the time. Flavorwise they tied at 3 stars (max. rating), with the Technivorm's coffee described as "smooth, velvety" and the Bonavita's as "bright, full, more acidic" due to slightly higher brew temp. As a result, the Bonavita is now their "Best Buy" in the auto-drip category.

Here's a brief quote about how they tested temp.: "...we ran two rounds of temperature checks on all of the machines by taping thermocouple probe wires to the center of each brew basket atop the coffee grounds (where the heated water would drip directly on them) and averaged the amount of time the water spent in the optimal zone."

Thanks for that Josh - had not seen that yet.
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Time_Bandit
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Postby Time_Bandit » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:15 pm

jbviau wrote:Since I haven't used either the Technivorm or the Bonavita, I'm hesitant to contribute, but I thought a wonky-yet-non-enthusiast perspective might be useful [not mine].

In the March 2013 Cook's Illustrated (think America's Test Kitchen) I noticed these two brewers came in #1 and #2. The Technivorm won out by staying within the ideal 195-205 temp. range for 87% of the brew cycle; the Bonavita was there 78% of the time. Flavorwise they tied at 3 stars (max. rating), with the Technivorm's coffee described as "smooth, velvety" and the Bonavita's as "bright, full, more acidic" due to slightly higher brew temp. As a result, the Bonavita is now their "Best Buy" in the auto-drip category.

Here's a brief quote about how they tested temp.: "...we ran two rounds of temperature checks on all of the machines by taping thermocouple probe wires to the center of each brew basket atop the coffee grounds (where the heated water would drip directly on them) and averaged the amount of time the water spent in the optimal zone."


Good to hear... thanks for sharing.

I am already realizing that these are probably all good choices. (TV, BV and Brazen) And I DO own a few high quality temp probes (e.g. I use the Thermapen from time to time in my French Press method to make sure I have not strayed from temps in my routine) and I just may get these in to try them out. Staying within the 195-205 temp band IS important to me.... but so is the pre-infusion / soaking step for off-gassing. The fresh beans I am using these days literally "blow up" when the initial water hits them (I am not alone there) and when I do press, I have to pre-water, wait 30 sec, knock the crust off, then continue with the water....

Accounting for this is important in any choice for drip coffee, I don't wnat the off-gas step "skipped."

Time_Bandit
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Postby Time_Bandit » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:22 pm

I agree - reading the misinformation in this thread just now, I was wondering when someone would correct the flow.

As Dave mentions, the TV and the BV are dead simple to use out of the box. After tinkering you might develop a tweak or two you enjoy to add more of what you like on a coffee - the adjustments are there for someone to use, most don't though and are very happy.

How many used Technivorm or Bonavita machines do you see in the buy/sell section of coffee forums? There are many thousands of these out there - more would be up for grabs used if they did not simply work.


Thanks Eric for jumping in with that clarification - I appreciate it. It's tough enough managing all the information on the web regarding some of these products - and forums like this earn their keep when they help some of us sort that out....

Gotta keep realizing, the reviews and opinions need to be treated like figure skating sometimes LOL - you gotta throw out the high and low score to get closer to the real result!

Cheers