thepilgrimsdream wrote:If you are willing to consider a used GB5, why not as used GS3? This will also afford you money towards another grinder, like an EK, Peak or Robur or something.

The GB5 is solid, but are you willing to have 220v running constantly in your kitchen? A GB5 Boiler will cost much more to replace than a GS3 I'm pretty sure....

Well, I've never seen a used Gs/3 for sale... does such a thing exist? Also, 220 isn't necessarily an issue, but one question would be whether the steam boilers, or the whole machine, could be turned off on the GB/5

Beaniac wrote:I dont want to offend you, but if you have been making milk drinks daily for the last 15 years and still can't make microfoam on a prosumer machine, a LA marzocco is not going to solve this for you. The extra power of a true commercial steamer may only make this harder to do, that's a matter of technique not equipment.

As for your choice, granted you're other thread on the same subject you already ruled out the lines mini?? Choosing between a gs3 and gb5 comes down to usage and the gs3 should be preferred in ANY home and even most small business setting.

No offense, but I don't think you understoon my point on the foam. I do understand yours, though, and agree. I might be able to get the last .5% out of my foam with more steam wand tweaking on the vivaldi, but I think I've reached the limit on tweaking it.

No, haven't ruled out the mini. Am trying to clarify the variables. It really, decision tree wise, comes down to mini or GS/3, i.e. does GS3 provide a reasonable increase in potential over mini, and then if GS/3 does, why not spend less money on a used commercial machine?

The question is why would a GS3 be preferred over a GB5 in a home if space is not an issue?

charlesaf3 wrote: The question is why would a GS3 be preferred over a GB5 in a home if space is not an issue?

Wasteful energy consumption for one. A GS3 owner could have it play double duty if they wanted to be mobile as well. Maintenance costs are going to be a lot higher on a GB5 (for each group serviced). That might be negated if you had to rebuild the MP group vs a standard AV though.

yeah, the energy issue is an issue, though not an earth shattering one, its only a total drag half the year. It would be interesting to know if GB5 boilers can be independently switched off, or if the entire machine could be put on a timer. Or what the actual steady state unused power drag is, and if the boilers can be insulated to decrease it..

maintenace wise, considering how many commercial machines and techs are out there, is the GS3 really all that much cheaper to maintain? I thought it shared a lot of innards with the commercial machines which should cost the same

The GB/5, Linea Mini.. and the GS/3 all have very similar steam power from what I can gather. I would go for a GS/3.. shots and milk will be identical to that of the GB/5 theoretically. The GS/3 is basically a one group GB/5, you can also do the Strada mod on the MP and do some pretty cool things.

This might sound weird, but I would find a friendly cafe with a GB/5 and see if they'll let you play with it, it's a beastly machine.. it's much bulkier than a 2 group Linea.

In all honesty.. they all are LM machines, capable of pulling great espresso. I think it's really a matter of personal preference between the 3.. who's to say you can't have a big ass machine in your kitchen if that's what you want.

You are right on stating a gb5 is allmost a 2group gs3. It's just not economical to have in your house if you ask me. Both energy and maintenance wise. No way you even get near its rated capacity. Heck that is already challenging on a gs3.
For that very reason I rather keep on searching for a 2nd hand single group linea like i have been for years now, rather then buying a wildly available 2group.

Last Friday, I spent some time at a Milk Class by La Marzocco. There were two Linea Minis to work on and I must say that they were great. They pulled great consistent shots and textured 6oz of milk in about 8 seconds beautifully.
For me, taking cost out of the equation, it would come down to how much I wanted to play with pre-infusion/pressure. I personally enjoy playing with the variables, therefore a GS/3 Strada Mod was my choice. If that weren't a factor, I'd buy the Mini in a heart beat. It's classic look, "commercial" quality build and simple analog approach is great.
I do like the digital component to the GS/3, especially switching brew temperature and the auto on/off timer.

Thanks, keep the opinions coming.

I think, based on what I've read, that milk steaming is a wash on all these, ie they are all great. My one concern on the mini is the effect of the apparently higher pressure.

A gb5 is of course not economical. But none of these under discussion are... Lets just say that I wouldn't want to defend the economics of replacing my perfectly good vivaldi to anybody... That said, the used GB5 is cheaper than the tweaked Gs/3s are. And I'd still tend to think, based on my non coffee experiences, might actually be cheaper to repair, given it's market prevalence. The nearest cafe marzocco repairman is withing a half mile of my house, whereas it's quite possible I'd have the only GS/3 in richmond.

No way that the GB5 would be cheaper to fix compared to GS/3. You have two group, two steam wand, larger rotary pump etc etc.
Worst case scenario look at the price of new 2 group brew boiler, they are over 2k. You have early model GB5 AV and want to upgrade to new Piero cap? $800 each in parts alone. People that says these machine lasts a lifetime never seen what chlorine can do and how hard the machine is running in busy commercial shop.

very good points, and actually I went to my local espresso machine repair shop, and the owner kindly talked to me for a while. He basically said he wouldn't pay more than 4k for a used 7 year old GB5, without knowing how it had been treated, since the last time he had to fix a couple of boilers on one it ended up running 4,500. And that's too much of a risk variance for me considering.

So I'm back to Linea vs. Gs/3, and leaning toward linea and a nice new grinder. I still can't see why the GS/3 is worth 2k more... 500 yes, but 2k? That said, I'm open to the idea, and would hate to buy the Linea and then buy a GS/3... though I suppose that wouldn't be the end of the world either