Hello,
I posted here a few weeks back on recommendations for a semi auto in about the 600 dollar 'USED' price range. I drink maybe 2 espresso per day, shots or lattes. I currently have a Compak K3 to pair it with and I am upgrading from a Breville that has no temp stability.

In my reading of threads back to 2013 on HB, the Crossland CC1 comes across as the clear bang for buck in the 700 dollar range. I don't feel like modding an NS Oscar as seems to be suggested.

I know there is a harsh divide on this site between lever and non-lever people. That is fine, I don't wish to rekindle the debate. But in my price range, and knowing that HX E61 machines might be a tad out of my budget, should I be looking seriously at levers for quality in the cup for my price?

I don't want an immense amount of hassle to make a shot, but I don't mind learning curves, if I know the machine can do it, I will eventually find the method with research and practice. What would you suggest in CC1 vs Levers, price being similar?
Thanks again and great site.
Mike in Montreal

I don't think you'll find a lever for $700 that will do a better job than the pump machine you're looking at. Unless you extensively modify it, and enjoy honing your skills to the nth degree.

You can get a nice La Pavoni for that price; or a cosmetically-challenged Elektra Micro Casa a Leva.

However, you're comparing a used lever to a new CC1.

There is always interesting used equipment coming up. For example, this Livietta is for sale ... Picked up a Pasquini Livietta today. Journey begins!

I paid less than that for my used La Peppina and also my Gaggia Factory and not too much more for my 1950's Faema Faemina, but I'm a Leverhead and don't see the appeal of a machine like the CC1.

I have seen used Cremina's go for 600 or less this summer.

I am a lever person, used Pavoni's mainly. I have too many at last count maybe 8 plus a la cara, la grazielle. But I am restoring a Salvatore Famosa pump machine. So I can see why people like both,

That said, used Pavoni on eBay, ~150 to 250 (get one that ends on a weekday), rebuild kit, Teflon overflow, single tip steam wand, boiler to base gaskets, all about ~100, powder coat the base a new cool color ~75.

Makes great espresso, finicky yes but I love them. Just picked up a Cremina as well lately to see what all the fuss what about. Better steam

So my bias says lever, if not handy....toss up as pumps have more to break.

mikesnow wrote:I don't feel like modding an NS Oscar as seems to be suggested.

Hi, Mike.

Some will consider this the voice of reason and others the excuse of the lazy or inexpert. Take your pick - I've been through lots of machines, methods and madness, and I'm too old and set in my ways to need general approval. But in my opinion, you do not need to mod an Oscar or most other current / recent machines to make great espresso and have a fine time doing it. There's a simple action to overcome each "deficiency" - learn and be willing to take those actions, and you too can be happy with so crude and undeveloped a device as an Oscar that was designed and manufactured by so crude and inexpert a company as NS. I'm reminded of friends who spend a fortune modifying the drive trains, suspensions and brakes on their street-driven cars because they think they're driving beyond the performance limits of their vehicles - but they're really only driving beyond the performance limits of their driving.

I also have a K3, and I live more than happily with a bone-stock Oscar. I don't use a timer, so I have no use for a vacuum breaker - I just open the steam knob briefly while it's warming up. I flush to cool the grouphead, so I don't need restrictors. I make very nice microfoam and latte art with the stock steam wand and tip. Etc etc etc.

My advice is to find a machine you like in that quality and functionality range at a price you're comfortable paying, clean it up and out as necessary if pre-owned (as was mine), and use it for 3 months. Then search HB for all those "tips" and try the ones that require no money (or limit it to less than $10, if you can't live with my approach) and no permanent alteration of your machine to see if any improves your coffee. If you can't make a consistently enjoyable drink by then, the machine is probably not to blame. Enjoy!!

David

Mike,
I've had e61's, DB's, and several levers. I really like the levers for their simplicity and consistently good coffee. I currently have a cremina and a Londinium L1. You might look at the Ponte Vecchio levers: http://www.1st-line.com/store/pc/Ponte-Vecchio-b8.htm

They're in your price range and make excellent coffee. Never used one. They have a smallish PF, but there's lots of info on HB about them. The Lusso is reviewed in detail on Bella Barista (UK).

I'll jump on the pile of lever recommenders. A La Pavoni Europiccola just skirts the top of your range new, only claims half your budget used. I happen to think that all espresso makers (home and pro) should spend some time with a manual lever. Even the not-as-lux-as-a-Cremin LPs are built to last in a way that no plastic box machine can touch. I've owned over 40 machines, some pump, some manual lever, some spring lever, and specifically a stock Oscar for a bit, and I can't recommend a good $300 used Europiccola more as a starter machine for someone who is willing to put in the time required to build up some skills and an espresso palate.

At the moment I've forgotten what your (OP) grinder situation is, but and extra $300 added to a grinder budget can go a long way...

This is a highly debatable topic, because each the CC1 and lever has its own advantage.

I've used a Cremina, a Pavoni, and a CC1 previously. In my opinion:

i) When all the stars align properly, the lever makes the best shot between the two (in my opinion of course).
ii) The CC1 makes one of the most beautiful microfoam (due to higher steam pressure) I've seen/tasted. Increasing boiler pressure on lever increases the chance of overheating thus is not advisable.
iii) Temperature management is a tad easier on the CC1. Temp management on lever isn't that much difficult once you master(or understand) it. Though, on lever, it's like catching a wave in surfing. If you jump too early, the shot may be cooler than intended. If too late, you'll miss the wave and the temperature will overshoot. Then you have to wait for it to cool down. But it is predictable.
iv) When mastered, the chances of getting predictable good shots on both machines are quite similar (with the lever being slightly more forgiving).
v) CC1 - you can make more shots and not worry about overtemp (unless you're making milk drink). With levers, you need to manipulate the grouphead temp (actively cool it).
vi) Durability - Lever will win out 99% of the time due to lesser electronics and components

So eventually it comes down to what you value more and usage pattern.

If you make 1-2 shot max per session, the lever isn't any more hassle to use than the CC1 (in fact probably faster). Otherwise, CC1 is a compelling choice.