Considering upgrade to Breville Dual Boiler (BES900XL)

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
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jchung
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#1: Post by jchung »

Hi everyone! New to the board but have been following it for a couple months now.

I'm considering upgrading my espresso machine. Currently using the Gaggia Baby Twin. I'm thinking of the Breville Dual Boiler (BES900XL) because of the feature set and price point. I know there have been a number of threads about this machine but I don't see any recently. Seems the last serious thread about it was early last year.

I'm wondering if anyone has any updates about their experience with the BDB now that its been a couple years since its been released.

Thanks!

Joo

kboom1
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Joined: 12 years ago

#2: Post by kboom1 »

not quite sure as I have never owned/used one, but have heard when you need to perform a descale you need to send it in and it's not to user servicable. correct me if I'm wrong guys. There is a BDB ongoing thread over at CoffeeGeek with some info on it.

gman30
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#3: Post by gman30 »

Hi,

I've had my Breville Dual Boiler for about 6 weeks. It has performed extremely well so far with literally zero issues.

Breville has had time to tweak their production, so almost, if not all of the little issues that people were having when it first came out have now been ironed out.

I haven't owned any of the $1000+ Italian made machines but from what I have gathered, the Breville machine performed comparably well. Most people who argue in favor of those machines do so because of Breville's issues with reliability on other products, such as their cheaper espresso machines of years past. Italian made espresso machines seem to use standard parts and have a more proven track record. Performance wise, I believe the dual boiler by Breville can pretty much compete with machines that cost $1500+. The steam production isn't super powerful, but myself and others have no trouble creating beautiful microfoam. It just works extremely well for my home usage routine. (~5 oz cappuccinos and ~12oz lattes)

As for the descaling, there have been Breville team membes who have said that the only reason they require that you send it in is because most people don't have a method of draining the boiler properly at home. So if you can do that, you probably wouldn't need to send it in. Even then, it'll be 4+ years before you would need to. That's acceptable to me, maybe not to you.

Breville customer service in regards to this machine is amazing. If you have an issue, you can just pickup the phone and call someone who is knowledgeable. Or you can email them. I emailed a question a few days ago and someone with true knowledge of the machine (and espresso in general) replied the next business day. Very nice.

The machines are assembled in China, however, each unit is inspected by Breville USA before being put to market which probably helps a lot.

Personally, I think Breville knew what they were getting into with this machine. They knew it would be enthusiasts who would buy it and they knew we would tear it apart on these forums so they really put forth a strong effort to create a robust machine with a knowledgeable team. Besides some growing pains and normal issues with such equipment, it appears they have succeeded so far. Will these machines last ~10 years? Who knows.

I highly recommend the BES900XL. If you are the type to "upgrade" within a few years, then I think it's a no brainer. If you're the type that would like to keep the machine for longer than 5 years, then it's a bit more of a gamble.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not an expert and I haven't directly compared this machine to the italian made machines, however I have done a ton of research before and after my purchase.

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jchung (original poster)
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#4: Post by jchung (original poster) »

kboom1 wrote:not quite sure as I have never owned/used one, but have heard when you need to perform a descale you need to send it in and it's not to user servicable. correct me if I'm wrong guys. There is a BDB ongoing thread over at CoffeeGeek with some info on it.
Thanks for the reply. I'm not too concerned having to send it to Breville to descale it once every 3 years. I checked on CoffeeGeek and the BDB thread seems old. I couldn't find a dedicated BDB thread that was recent. Perhaps I missed it?

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jchung (original poster)
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#5: Post by jchung (original poster) »

Gman30,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm relatively new to making espressos (less than 1 year). So I'm not sure how often I'll be cycling through espresso machines.

I was hoping to know how well the machine handled after say 6 months, 1 year, etc...

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jfrescki
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#6: Post by jfrescki »

The Breville is most often referred to as the BDB. Search on that and you'll turn up plenty of reading.
Write to your Congressman. Even if he can’t read, write to him.
- Will Rogers

MerleApAmber
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#7: Post by MerleApAmber »

I'll chime in with Greg above; his points are spot on for me. I've had two of these units, first was purchased through the Warehouse Deals group at Amazon; second from the Amazon Retail site.

My standing recommendation is ensure you purchase from a vendor who is selling new, not offering second hand or returned equipment. In this Breville has been outstanding in their warranty customer service response on this equipment. I had no problem with the first unit from Warehouse, only that as the holiday season came up the price they sold at was above what I would pay for brand new. I was able to return the unit within my acceptable trial period. Since then, one of the others at Coffeegeek discovered there are differences in warranty support between the two sites because of the difference in new/used. I've had the new unit from Amazon retail since end of October with absolutely no problems or disappointment what-so-ever. Daily I am drawing 4 to 6 espresso, making 1 or 2 microfoamed drinks, and purging 1.5 to 3 times as much volume of water through equipment in preheat and flushing of the pressure release valve and group head.

I have no experience with the traditional heavy constructioned equipment. I have had significant experience with first a Krupps HX and then Starbucks Barista pump pressurized porta-filter machines over more than 10 years. If the Breville stands up half as well as those inexpensive but not quite espresso producers it should be a fine product to take me forward on my next steps into the realm of culinary 'high pressure coffee chromatography.' :D

I would recommend checking a bit more carefully on the Coffeegeek site, and do not discount long historic threads. They have a lot of hard won insight for all aspects of the conversation.

By the by Greg, welcome to Home-Barista! Excellent offering on your first post. And Joo a pleasure to have you bring up fresh interest in the BDB -Welcome to Home-Barista.
Regards,
Chris

bobmccarthy
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#8: Post by bobmccarthy »

The only concern I've had regarding purchase of the BDB is how to occasionally flush (freshen) water in the steam boiler. The hot water tap is connected to the brew boiler not the steam boiler. All other espresso machines connect the hot water tap to the steam boiler.

The brew boiler can be occasionally flushed with the brewhead (or in this case the water tap also), but the steam boiler has no outlet except for the steam wand. Since steam is evaporated water, it leaves salts and other minerals behind. It is my only concern regarding buying one.

bob

MerleApAmber
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#9: Post by MerleApAmber »

Bob,
Excellent point about the steam boiler. Since so many of the current users out here haven't gone out of warranty and started the after market owner maintenance process this could be a serious cause concern.

Breville seems to believe their 5 years at nominal 150ppm tds is realistic. Their legal department may have counselled reluctance in presenting any guidance toward this basic process practiced by owners of other systems. Someone may make a pile of money doing the leg work of coming up with a "kit" of hose and connectors, adding a 'procedure' on an effective way to drain/purge the steam boiler vessel. Only time will tell.

I personally 'seeded' my system with good tap water the first couple of fills in the reservoir and have since used only RO water. My intent was to provide just enough conductivity in the system to operate the level sensors. This is my preference and I don't intend to influence anyone in the multiple considerations of high purity water vice water groomed for taste and texture one way or another. I will note, from what I've seen from others - others using E61 systems - that tds can make a huge impact, especially if the water is moderately to heavily hard.

As always, your mileage may vary.

Beenbag
Posts: 330
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#10: Post by Beenbag »

There is a very active BDB thread over on the Aussie "Coffee snobs" site ..
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-equip ... ad-82.html
From reading , it would appear that a few common issues start appearing after 18 months or so..
EG..
Portafilter slipping off during brewing ( plastic lock ring wear ? )
Brew water blockage from defective "O" ring on the solenoid valve
volumetric controls becoming erratic/non functional

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