I've searched the forum and can't find similar questions so forgive me if this has been asked.

Locally it appears that Rocket is the prosumer machine of that retailers are selling
I currently have a Racilio Silvia and a Macap M4. I'd like to move up to a HX or DB machine that keeps the home use foot print. So I'm looking at the Rocket R58 dual boiler or the Rocket Evoluzione HX machine.
I'm leaning toward the R58 because of the PID and dual boiler but would love some advice on whether the cost is justified.

Thanks

I'd really like some hands on info as well. Also a Silvia+macap owner and I'm looking to eventually upgrade to one of the Rocket's. I'm leaning towards the Giotta Plus V2. It's an HX with a PID for $750 less and still looks awesome but I don't know how good the PID option is on an HX. I got a while before I can afford it so I'm gonna do all the research I can.

I had this decision a few months ago and went with a hx machine. But in retrospect I like the stability of the double boiler. It's just easier to use.

Burner0000 wrote:It's an HX with a PID for $750 less and still looks awesome but I don't know how good the PID option is on an HX. I got a while before I can afford it so I'm gonna do all the research I can.

Chris,

Start here so you better understand how a HX works.

A PID will only be a little friendlier on the pulses given to the heating element to keep your set boiler temp/pressure steadier. Your deadband will be eliminated, but it will not do squat to eliminate the cooling flush.

I know how one works. What I am wondering is how does a PID on an HX control the water temp in the HX tube. So far the info I am finding is it's only got the option to control "Boiler temp" not brew and steam. So I guess really all it does is bring down the temp enough to be able to adjust the temp in the HX tube but your losing steam power in the process..

With respect and affection Chris, you don't "know how one works."

The HX reservoir -- whether tube or coil -- whether completely, partially or not at all submerged in the liquid water -- inside the steam boiler. Water in the HX tube is heated by the energy of the water and/or steam in the steam boiler. In order to produce adequate steam, the PID holds the temperature inside the steam boiler well beyond the correct temperature of the brew water.

You set the PID so that the boiler provides adequate steam, and then use timed cooling flushes to control the group and brew water temperatures. The temperature of the brew water is modulated by mixing the hot water inside the HX tube with cooler, fresher water; and by the temperature of the group which it must pass through on the way to the basket.

It's actually much simpler than it sounds.

Rich

damonbowe wrote:I had this decision a few months ago and went with a hx machine. But in retrospect I like the stability of the double boiler. It's just easier to use.

Just to throw some extra anecdotal data in. I had a Rocket Cellini Evo v1 for a little over two years and ended up buying a Londinium I to replace it. I didn't like the hassle of the HX, and I wanted inter-shot temperature stability. My search was primarily around dual boiler machines and anything that looked more sanely temp stable (which led me to the L1 ). Some people love HXes or are able to tame them well enough for their usecases. That's likely more of a personal call than anything else.

Good luck!

redpig wrote:Just to throw some extra anecdotal data in. I had a Rocket Cellini Evo v1 for a little over two years and ended up buying a Londinium I to replace it. I didn't like the hassle of the HX, and I wanted inter-shot temperature stability. My search was primarily around dual boiler machines and anything that looked more sanely temp stable (which led me to the L1 ). Some people love HXes or are able to tame them well enough for their usecases. That's likely more of a personal call than anything else.

Good luck!

Will,
I know Reiss claimed the machine to be temp stable, but he was referring to the grouphead not overheating when left powered on idling. As for inter-shot temp stability, I don't know anyone that would say a machine with a 10 degree F drop in temp during a shot falls into this category. Are newer models any better at maintaining temp during the shot?

Purchased the Rocket Giotto past November. After much research, the machine meets my needs as the only coffee drinker. I like some hands on ,but its not rocket science, no pun intended! Getting great drinks, shots are great, its a very nice machine, but not inexpensive , just less than what others are willing to spend for similar results. Personally I believe its in the technique anyway!

Makes sense. Rich have you used an HX with a PID before? I wonder how long a machine with a 2L boiler would take to drop adjust a few degrees in brew temperature.

You set the PID so that the boiler provides adequate steam, and then use timed cooling flushes to control the group and brew water temperatures.

Is this done my the machine or the user in most cases? If the user then heck no on an HX + PID. Id basically be temp surfing to adjust temp just like on my Silvia. I'd rather go with jasonmck's pick on an R58.