The Max has a difficult grind path to clean out compared to the K30. The K30 retains some grinds right at the point where the coffee is ejected at the top into the chute. It was very easy to push it out with a short grind to clear and toss. The newer mod may take care of that. I really liked that grinder (burrs and all!).

The Max was a whole different kettle of fish. If I really wanted to get it cleaned out I had 2 choices. One was to do the same but with a larger amount of beans, or take my Dyson and suck out all the old bits from the top. I could swear I got at least a double out of there. I had to stop doing the vacuum method since the coffee residue was ruining my vacuum (smelled like rotten beans). Then of course there was the space between the top and the burrs. That was an easy fix though with the chopped off water bottle.

I didn't know there was a K10 doserless. I prefer them to the thwakity, thwack in my home but I would want to know if there was a static issue that would cause coffee boulders.

Lockman wrote:The Max has a difficult grind path to clean out compared to the K30.

The Max was a whole different kettle of fish. If I really wanted to get it cleaned out I had 2 choices. One was to do the same but with a larger amount of beans, or take my Dyson and suck out all the old bits from the top. I could swear I got at least a double out of there. I had to stop doing the vacuum method since the coffee residue was ruining my vacuum (smelled like rotten beans). Then of course there was the space between the top and the burrs. That was an easy fix though with the chopped off water bottle.

I didn't know there was a K10 doserless. I prefer them to the thwakity, thwack in my home but I would want to know if there was a static issue that would cause coffee boulders.

I guess I just don't understand this "issue."

What I do with my Max's (I have 3; 2 original ones and one "Chris Hybrid") is that if I am changing coffees then I use the little bit of coffee that is left in the hopper throat to make a milk drink, where the grind and pour characteristics are less important. Generally then I will end up with maybe 5-10 grams of coffee that is left over. I grind this through in pulses and use a chop stick a couple of times (when the machine is NOT grinding) to dislodge the 2 or 3 beans that might be accessible on the "shelf" above the burrs to grind those through as well. I clean out the chute going from the burrs to the doser with the same chop stick, which is very easy to do once you have removed the finger guard (or the autogrind flapper door in the case of the original autogrinding Max).

Now it is true that the design of the Cimbali Max (and Junior) does leave a few beans on a shelf on the periphery of the grind burrs. Most of these beans are not easily accessible and once the available space is filled, they stay where they are. These beans collect early on in the life of the grinder and unless you move the grinder around or invert it, those beans are not going to mix into the shots that you make. Perhaps Cimbali could have designed that aspect of the grinder better, but I can tell you that you are not going to get those old beans in your coffee unless you do something with the grinder that it is not designed for, such as moving it around constantly off level and/ or inverting it. This all fits in with some practices that I find bizarre in the home user community, such as constantly disassembling these large commercial grinders in an effort to "clean them." If one does that, one will find beans constantly accumulating on that "shelf" area, however I don't see that as being the sort of thing that this grinder was designed to do or have done to it, rather I see it as more of a manifestation of OCD disorder.

From shot to shot where I have a bean column over the grinder throat, not changing the coffees, all I do is to grind what I want for a shot including the grinds in the chute which I salvage (e.g. use) in the shot. Doing this I have as close to zero waste per shot as with any grinder I have ever used, and way less than with my Compak K10. Each morning or after a period of non-use of a Max which is longer than a few hours, I'll pulse a couple of grams of coffee through to clean out the interstices between the burrs, the voids in the grind path, and the doser. I also use a grinder brush in the doser from time to time.

As has been stated umpteen times, the Max is very ill-suited to the use pattern of someone who wants to single shot dose, changing coffees constantly. But for someone who keeps the same kind of coffee in the grinder for at least a couple of days (or more) the waste and cleaning efforts on this grinder are quite minimal.

ken

Ken Fox wrote:As has been stated umpteen times, the Max is very ill-suited to the use pattern of someone who wants to single shot dose, changing coffees constantly. But for someone who keeps the same kind of coffee in the grinder for at least a couple of days (or more) the waste and cleaning efforts on this grinder are quite minimal.

Agreed.

If I were to consider either one of these, i would opt for the K10. Having 0 experience with the CMH I just find the look revolting. My experience with many doserless models has been very disappointing. Every one to date has resulted in a need to further distribute the grinds via the "weiss method" thus negating the benefit of not having the doser. Although I never pulled a shot with the K10 doserless, i did see one in action at last years SCAA expo in Atlanta and was very impressed - reasonably fast grind, quite, and virtually no clumps.

Aesthetics IS important. After all, it's going to be in your kitchen. It's a definite consideration.

That said, having lots of experience with the CMH (though not as much as Ken), I can honestly say I'm very happy with my grinder -- both in terms of its construction/build quality, and in terms of the quality of the ground coffee it gives me. I continue to wholeheartedly recommend it . . . IF it suits your "coffee regimen."

I, too, have no hands-on experience with a Compak K10, but if you add 20, that's another grinder I can enthusiastically recommend.

Cheers,
Jason

Another satisfied CMH owner here. With a couple mods, its great "bang for the buck" also becomes "easy to live with." The exit chute on mine is simple to get to because I removed the finger-guard/coffee deflector. I just attached a piece of plastic to the lid, pointing downward, to deflect ground coffee downward (instead of spraying all over inside the doser). The exit chute is now completely accessible, and a snap to sweep out.

Another mod I did minimized the volume between the hopper and burrs. And yes, it works great too.

Next up is to quiet it down a bit. On my Cunill Tranquilo, which in its stock form, is anything but tranquil, I lined the inside of the body with Dynamat (designed for automobile sound insulation). That combined with a small rubber gasket between the body and dosing funnel has made it a significantly quieter grinder. I'm thinking that a bit of Dynamat on the inside of the CMH body will prevent it from resonating, making it much quieter. I'll report back when I'm done.

Thanks for all the input. I finally made a decision and hopefully my grinder should be here in a day or two.

The aesthetics and ergonomics of the CMH really disqualified it for my use. Ken's suggestion of buying two made a lot of sense and eliminated many of my concerns, so I came close to doing that, but in the end the design and noise level just seemed like it would become tiresome. The WBC seemed the best option after that, since the schnozz on the doserless is going to make it a pain to sweep. But the WBC would still leave me dealing with a doser when I really don't have a use for one. In the end I found myself thinking about moving up another class and just buying a Nino. Having to rewire or have a transformer, questions about firmware versions and the difficulty of upgrades I couldn't seem to get answered convinced me that it probably wasn't the best decision right now.

So I ended up taking Jason's suggestion and getting a K30 Vario demo unit. I know, I know... it's not even a conical and that what I started this whole thread to ask about. However, everyone seems very pleased with them, and the ergonomics fit my needs better than any of the conicals I looked at, other than the Nino. The grind retention seems low and easy to clear, which was a big concern for me. I'm sure I'll eventually want a second grinder, so maybe I'll get a Nino then.

Good choice!

Be sure to open her up before you use it and check the motor, cap and shock mounts by pulling the motor out. It is easy to do if you line up the stop in the bolt hole after removing.
If you are luckier than me it will not be an issue. If it is, it could do more damage by running it.
Mine still worked but I but I could tell something was wrong by the fact that the burrs were locked up at 3.

I hope you get the "newer" version. If not, you can upgrade it if clumping is an issue.

Enjoy!

Ken Fox wrote:to make a milk drink, where the grind and pour characteristics are less important.

You mean that they're less important to *you*, right? ; >

My preferred drink tends to be a classic competition styled cappuccino with both shots in it instead of just the one. If the whole thing gets to six ounces, I lose interest. A poorly pulled doppio in that is like a rotten berry in my fruit salad. It's no longer that one rotten berry, but the whole bowl that's off.

Chris,

I prefer my caps in the same fashion as you. You are not alone:D

Cheers,
Jackson