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Conditioning water (softening and pressure) for plumbing in?

Postby godshot on Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:34 am

My research on equipment right now is leading me toward a Vibiemme Domobar Super HX rotary pump machine. It's possible I'll change my mind before it's all said and done, but I plan to plumb in whatever machine I choose regardless, that much is certain. So I'll be plumbing in the Vibiemme to my kitchen sink cold water supply line, probably drilling down through the back of the counter and into the cabinets beneath, and then along the wall to the sink cabinet. I'm sure I'll have some questions about the best way to do this once I see what kind of water line and hardware comes with the Vibiemme or whatever I end up with. But my question for now is about conditioning the water.

I live in Dallas Texas. I can't seem to find any water report that shows how hard the water is. I can't tell if it's hard because I don't have anything else to compare it with. It usually tastes good and it doesn't seem that hard to me. Is there anyone from Dallas who knows whether it is advisable for the water to be softened for a plumbed in setup?

My understanding of water softeners is that they work by replacing calcium and magnesium ions with sodium. That doesn't seem especially healthy. I'm generally looking for ways to reduce sodium in my diet.

What about water filtration? Is simple sediment filtration sufficient, or is there a need to remove other compounds like chlorine? What kind of under-sink filter would be appropriate for that if so?

My water pressure is around 60 PSI. Will I need any kind of pressure regulation on the supply line?
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Postby erics on Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:55 am

I can't seem to find any water report that shows how hard the water is


http://www.dallascityhall.com/dwu/water_utilities_faqs2.html

The Vibiemme Super Hx model with a vibration pump has a very nicely designed component arrangement and the water tank is HUGE - a much more practical machine. You can read all about it right here: http://www.home-barista.com/vibiemme-domobar-super-review.html
Skål,

Eric S.
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E-mail: erics at erols dot com
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Postby godshot on Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:25 am

erics, thank you for your comments. I'm aware of the City of Dallas Water report. In fact I read it every year when it is published. I'm assuming you googled it but didn't read it. It is focused on things like contaminants, volatile organics, and other things that present safety concerns with area water. It does not measure or report on the concentration of calcium or magnesium or other minerals in the water that contribute to hardness, nor does it provide a hardness figure in grains per gallons or mg/l. In the FAQs it merely says that Dallas water is "moderately hard", which actually tells you nothing.

You may regard the Vibiemme Super Hx with a vibration pump as "a more practical machine", but you are doubtless judging it by criteria that is significant to you, without being aware of what is significant to me. I'm not interested in a pour-over machine because it is impractical for my kitchen. I have no possible location that is not underneath a cabinet, and I have no wish to move the machine to add water to it. I also wish to minimize noise, particularly since I get up much earlier than others in the house.

Although I mentioned the machine I'm likely to buy, my questions are not about which machine to buy or whether it should be a pour-over or a plumbed. It is about necessary or recommended conditioning for water in Dallas for a plumbed-in machine.
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Postby MDL on Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:53 am

Plumbing in is a great convenience that I would never turn back from.

It is a good idea to install a pressure regulator/gauge and at least a particle filter of some sort in your water line. You can either use a simple particle filter or a carbon cartridge that will both filter particles and remove organics from the water.

Regarding your water hardness you should purchase either some water hardness test strips or a colorimetric test kit. These can be ordered online or purchased at aquarium and or swimming pool supply places.

I use the SofChek test strips and find them to be very clear and easy to read (some strips have very muddy and indistinct colors):

http://www.diywatertesting.com/sofchekx3.html

You can order the components to build whatever softening/filtering system you would like from a supplier such as WaterAnywhere ( http://www.wateranywhere.com/ ). I am sure that there are other suppliers that may be closer to you and or have advantages but I have used WaterAnywhere for a number of years and found them to be reliable and reasonably priced.

Take care and best of luck with your decisions and ultimately with your new machine...
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Postby godshot on Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:31 pm

Thanks for the tips on DIY water testing, Mark, and for the encouragement.

Meanwhile, the more I read the more I'm inclined to put together a water conditioning panel that I can mount under my sink near the supply line. I just don't know what all needs to be incorporated yet. Sediment filtration and carbon filtration (probably a single carbon filter system that will take care of both, if possible) to eliminate sediment and off flavors, as you suggested. A softening system if necessary. A pressure regulator. All mounted on a panel with steel braided flexible line connection to the cold water line so I can pull the panel out to access filters.
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Postby MDL on Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:38 pm

I purchased my softening system from Chris' Coffee when I purchased my Vivaldi II. When I needed replacement cartridges I discovered WaterAnywhere. My system is connected using John Guest tubing and fittings. The system is on a panel that sits against one side of the sink cabinet in the kitchen. It could be removed from under the sink but actually it is very easy to replace cartridges while the cabinet is open and the unit is in place.

Be sure to add lots of shutoff valves:
immediately after the "T" to pull your cold water
after the cartridges and before the pressure regulator
immediately before the espresso machine

I also have an extra "T" after the cartridges and before the pressure regulator. This facilitates flushing the system after installation of new cartridges. You will want another shutoff valve on the drain leg of the "T".
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Postby godshot on Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:18 pm

Mark, great idea on having lots of shutoffs. The water panel in my darkroom has ball valve shutoffs and check valves before and after the hot and cold water filters and mixing valves so I can isolate any part of the system. I was thinking of taking a similar approach for the new panel, with everything hard plumbed in soldered copper on the panel itself, but with flex line running from the input supply and again from the panel outflow to the machine.

Can you can you expand a bit on this part?

I also have an extra "T" after the cartridges and before the pressure regulator. This facilitates flushing the system after installation of new cartridges. You will want another shutoff valve on the drain leg of the "T".


What part are you flushing, and how would you go about doing that? Also, what is the drain leg of the T refer to?
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Postby MDL on Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:57 pm

When you install new cartridges you need to flush waste water through them to clear free ion exchange resin or free carbon residue in the cartridges (when you do this you will see a bunch of black carbon junk in the outflow). To make this easy without having to disconnect the system you install a "T" somewhere after the cartridges (I have mine immediately after the cartridges so that the "junk" is flushed out ASAP). The three legs of the "T" are:

output from the cartridges
waste output
input to the regulator, espresso machine

You will need a shutoff after the "T", and another on the waste output leg. With this setup you close the shutoff that is after the "T" and open the one on the waste leg to dump the flushing water when new cartridges are installed.

I see no real advantage (or disadvantage) to preparing the panel with soldered copper instead of John Guest fittings. I didn't have access to a torch or other tools to work with copper plumbing so I used the John Guest fittings. There really isn't much to the panel. You can also use a nipple to connect the two filter cartridges.
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Postby godshot on Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:24 pm

Thank you for the lucid explanation, Mark. That all makes perfect sense now.

As for the sweated copper plumbing, I simply prefer it over plastic tubing and John Guest fittings. I have all hard-plumbed sweated copper lines and ball lock valves in my darkroom. I have a combination of silicone tubing with hydraulic quick-disconnects and sweated copper plumbing for my brewery. Of course, I will use flexible line for the parts of this application where it gives a good advantage.
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Postby iginfect on Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:05 pm

I strongly recommend John Guest connections. They are not available at the big box home improvement stores and I've had a failure with the Lowe's brand. Chris Coffee has the JG plumbing but it is available elsewhere.

Marvin
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