wow...you guys have given me a ton of amazing info. If I can ever return the favor by answering any homebuilding or home theater questions, please fire away!!

All of your info really helped me a lot, and caused me to read a lot more about the pro's and cons of hx vs dual boiler.

I think it comes down to this. The LM would be amazing with its dual boiler, and its styling is spectacular. Maybe not quite as earth shattering as the mirage or the elektra, but still very very nice.

Performance wise, I think the mirage and elektra will give us great shots (assuming we preflush, etc.) Luckily, they girls that will be working their all have a clue. 95% are college grads, and all are fun, smart smiling faces. Will they still make mistakes? sure. but less than an 18 year old trying to send a text message to their bff while trying to pull a shot! I think we can manage this part. We will be doing some extensive training...and all of the employees are eager to learn.

Plus...as miserable as this is...our area is way behind the times. A good steak is at ponderosa, and the best coffee is at dunkin' donuts (according to the masses.) So even if we achieve 90% perfection, we will still be light years ahead of the competition!

So...last night at one of our local halloween parades (and in a friend's little coffee/bike shop) I took pictures of the dutch mirage, the LM and the elektra. without exception, this is what I was told:

The LM is a beautiful european masterpiece. looks like something you would see in italy, although the styling isn't quite as good for our retro 50's coffee/ice cream shop.

the elektra - perfect retro look, super cool chome back, and "blends" right in with our 50's styling.

The mirage (see note below) - HOLY CRAP!!! I want to try some coffee out of that! wow!!! although the styling may not be as dead on 50's, it still has a retro feel...and everyone thinks it will be 75% as good in terms of fitting in our 50's theme. BUT everyone thought that the 25% decrease in appropriate styling was way way made up by the enormous wow factor. One guy told me that just because of the looks of the machine he knows the coffee will taste better! Placebo effect in action. Everyone pretty much felt this way.

Note: The standard mirage got the above response, but when I showed them the picture of the same machine with the veloce styling, they practically begged me to get it. The veloce was hands down the winner. (I didn't even mention this styling in my first post, because I didn't think $1200 for a different finish was worth it.) Appparently, it is.

So...it seems like the veloce duette is the winner in terms of styling. They have some preinfusion cups available, so this seems like the way to go. Plus, even with veloce styling, it is thousands less than the elektra.

now...to start researching grinders and beans and a standard pour over machine for the "traditional" coffee drinkers who don't like that "foreign espresso stuff"! (I am going to talk to counter culture coffee next week.)

t

Since you're leaning towards the fantabulous out of this world designs of Kees Van Der Western, did you happen to see the La Marzocco Mistral? If only my budget allowed...but don't know if they're even currently available.

Mistral, love those along with the Kees but I think the pure esthetic winner is the Elektra Belle Epoque series, love that design, may not be as functional as the layout of the FB80 but dang, love the design.

Grinders, don't skimp. When the Titan Grinder project visited my home I had an opportunity to try quite a few large commercial machines. The Mazzer Robur was my personal favorite but way out of my price range. You will need at least two, probably more if you plan on having drip coffee as well. One for regular espresso, one for decaf and one for brew. Something like a Robur for the mainline, a Super Jolly or Major for the decaf and something from Mahlkonig for the drip would work good, but so would a variety of other brands. If you want to go nuts you could get the 220V 3 phase Robur, they also make a doserless version that is nice.

I am actually moving to Philly (or rather West Conshohocken) for work, looking out around Pottstown for a home so I know where Allentown and Bethlehem are. My favorite cigar shop is in Bethlehem, was out there a week ago. Good luck, maybe I will visit once you are online.

And when you arrive in Philadelphia, you can try here:

http://chestnuthillcoffee.com/

They do care and the results show.

Haven't even seen an Elektra machine in person, but I've pulled shots on a Mirage, and it's the most forgiving machine I've ever used (I've worked with Lineas, have pulled on NS Aurelia, various modded FB70s, and a Mistral w/ paddles). I was also told that they are tuned to be used with a very brief flush, and when this is practiced they are temperature stable. From what I've tasted, this is in fact the case. I absolutely love the steam wands and tips on the van der Westen machines (Mistral too). Steam is powerful but controllable. Taste wise, there's more body and middle flavor to the shots, with slightly muted acidity. I'm still convinced that basket geometry, shot parameters, and grinder have a bigger effect on how a coffee tastes than the specific machine type, however.

I'd consider that new Elektra Nino, or Anfim+Search/Robur E/K30 Vario for a grinder. Not having to control dose manually makes for a faster, more consistent, and cleaner bar.

I have worked with a Swift and despised it. They can make wonderful espresso, but it's too difficult to adjust dose. I'd much rather have a timer I can change on the fly, depending on how the espresso is behaving that day.

Full disclosure: I work for a Metropolis wholesale customer, and Metropolis deals Mirages.
Nick

P.S. Have you seen the Veloce panels on a Classic (not machined) body?

My vote is for a dual boiler machine. However the KVDW Mirage is a nice looker and having spoken to people working on them, they do say that they are very stable and can be fitted with different flow restrictors to help manage grouphead temperature.

Alternatively, to save you some money, have you seen this on eBay in the UK?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAP...&_trksid=p3907.m29

Good luck

For under $3000 USD that's a stunning machine on eBay.

For me if you want WOW ... the Mirage Duette Classic has the WOW factor in spades.

I love the industrial look of the Mirage Idrocompresso. Not really a 1950s theme, more of a modern biker bar.

cannonfodder wrote:Mistral, love those along with the Kees but I think the pure esthetic winner is the Elektra Belle Epoque series, love that design, may not be.

I love the look of that. However I'd have the nagging through of easily scratched copper and a coffee shop environment.

Having said that.. I may be biased

A Mistral is a sight to behold. I saw my first one in person at Honolulu Coffee Company on Waikiki last year. Theirs was an original Kees Mistral with the thick glass on either side of the frame. Earlier this week a guy from Cuvée Coffee Company here in Houston showed me one of the new 3-group La Marzocco-made Mistrals, which he had in a box in his warehouse waiting to be delivered to some multi-millionaire in the area. I thought the newer La Marzocco one looked a lot prettier, but then I find Kees' work to be a little, shall we say, over the top if not sometimes quite garish.

Ouch, though, the new Mistrals set you back about $18k, and it can take some time to get on the waiting list.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Business...tion-186014075.htm

Second hand Mirage Triplette for about 3600USD (plus shipping) at the current exchange rate.