Hi all,

I have been reading everything and anything I can in the last couple of months, trying to figure out what to purchase for my first home espresso setup. The HB forums have been fantastic and have certainly helped me start to learn about the coffee/espresso world.

I managed to snag a Compak E10 with the Red Speed conical burrs on the FS section here, so I believe I am set on the grinder end...for now. Now, I am unsure of which machine to match it with. I am currently renting, but plan to purchase a house this year, so I've got a few scenarios mapped out. Current kitchen is small and doesn't give me the ability to plumb in a machine, new house will (eventually) have a coffee area, with water and electric available.

The options I've mapped out:
1. Purchase BDB 920xl right now. Give to parents when we move to a house; it's friendly enough that they'll use it. Purchase custom Slayer-tier setup that "matches" new kitchen.
2. Lucca M58. Use with the tank for now. Either sell when we move, or plumb it in. Maybe I'll decide to use this longer, given it is a bit more robust than the 920xl (?).
3. Purchase Slayer-tier setup now, figure out flojet setup for now, hope it aesthetically works with new kitchen (build entire new kitchen around Slayer?? )
4. Purchase Linea Mini now. Use tank now, plumb in at the house. Though, at this price point, I would like to have features like a shot timer and pressure profiling.

With the E10 grinder, how different will my in-the-cup results be between the 920XL, M58, Linea Mini and Slayer? Depending my mood/the weather/moon phase, I enjoy single-origin shots, as well as more "traditional" blends. Am I missing any of the experience by (potentially) jumping right into a top-tier machine? Part of me wants to have the knowledge about the process on a range of espresso makers, but a (bigger) part of me wants excellent, repeatable, espresso drinks every morning.

What do you think?

The E10 is one of my favorite grinders and is recommended by Slayer.
You can't go wrong with that pairing.

If we were already in a new house (with more space and plumbing in the machine an option), I would say this is absolutely the solution. However, given that I can't currently plumb in, I would have to rig up a water system with a flojet and other parts for the meantime. I am not sure how difficult this is for a Slayer setup, so I am off to do some more searching! Space is currently tight too, so I'd need to figure out storage for both the Slayer and water system.

If you want to do something nice for your parents and you think they'd really use the BDB, then option 1 seems like a good choice for now. It will give you the opportunity to learn on an easier machine before upgrading if you decide to go the Slayer route.

I've been at this hobby for 10 years and have slowly upgraded to where I now have an E10 and Linea Mini (great combo by the way!) and I feel like the LM gives me all that I need. Not sure that even now I would want the additional variables that a Slayer would involve, though I admit they look super sharp and would be fun to play with. So you may also want to consider option 4. Then again you could start out with option 1 and take your time to decide how to upgrade (to Slayer, Linea Mini, or something else).

I'm sure you could probably find some HBers in your area with a Linea Mini to try out.

Good luck!!

Vesuvius...

/thread

keno wrote:If you want to do something nice for your parents and you think they'd really use the BDB, then option 1 seems like a good choice for now. It will give you the opportunity to learn on an easier machine before upgrading if you decide to go the Slayer route.

I've been at this hobby for 10 years and have slowly upgraded to where I now have an E10 and Linea Mini (great combo by the way!) and I feel like the LM gives me all that I need. Not sure that even now I would want the additional variables that a Slayer would involve, though I admit they look super sharp and would be fun to play with. So you may also want to consider option 4. Then again you could start out with option 1 and take your time to decide how to upgrade (to Slayer, Linea Mini, or something else).

I'm sure you could probably find some HBers in your area with a Linea Mini to try out.

Good luck!!

Ken - thanks for the input. The more I think about it, the more I am leaning toward option 1 or 4 now. Like you said, if I get the BDB first, I will have an easier machine to learn on; while we figure the house out and I do more research on the Slayer machines.

The Linea Mini also would be great, since I am sure I would be content with it for a long time, and it works both with the tank or plumbed in. I'm assuming the shots out of it are already great enough, that maybe the absence of pressure profiling wouldn't be noticed (esp for someone new to espresso making). The shot timer is solved with an Acaia or similar scale.

Since you've been through a range of machines, how would you rate/compare the shots from your earlier machines vs the Mini? Do you think the E10 + BDB would pull a comparable shot to the E10 + Mini (assuming all other variables are the same)?

...Vesuvius...looks like a great machine, have not looked into it closely yet. Adding another item to my list - thanks!

HighlyCaffienated wrote:Since you've been through a range of machines, how would you rate/compare the shots from your earlier machines vs the Mini? Do you think the E10 + BDB would pull a comparable shot to the E10 + Mini?

I don't have any personal experience with the BDB but I've heard from a lot of people on HB about it being the best value machine in that price range. It would be very interesting to see a head to head comparison between the BDB, and E61 double boiler, and Linea Mini. Maybe you'll find you're okay with the BDB for a while before you eventually decide to upgrade.

My E61 experience is mainly with HX machines and the Linea Mini just pulls better and much more consistent shots. It really helps you focus on the coffee, dose, and grind - and thus learn how to become a better home barista. I've played around a little with some E61 DB machines and I do think the Linea Mini pulls better shots - not as big as the difference with an HX but still noticeable.

I think a lot of it also comes down to machine ergonomics. Some are really just nicer to work with than others - the feel, quality, steaming capability, ease of cleaning and maintaining, etc. That's why I'd recommend you try out the different machines in person if possible before making a decision.

One thing to consider with the Linea mini (which I don't own, but am strongly considering for an upgrade from my BDB)...it is said to produce great shots when you get everything right. Since this is your first home espresso setup, there will likely be a learning curve for getting your espresso "right". With only a one second preinfusion, the mini may be a bit less forgiving than the BDB for someone trying to find their way. With the BDB, you can vary preinfusion times and pressures, and that can give you lots of flexibility with learning about espresso.

Plus, it's always nice to do something great for our parents, isn't it...

I've owned a lot of espresso equipment (40+ machines, 40+grinders) and have a contentious relationship with gear acquisition syndrome (I'm way past upgrade issues) having transitioned from a home enthusiast to a professional. It seems increasingly common for threads mulling over going all in and buying a Slayer high end commercial 1 group as a first machine...

Should I buy a Slayer/Strada Modded GS3/Speedster/Synesso?
If you are the type of person who isn't going to be able to not own the biggest, baddest, and most expensive option available, you should just come to terms with that and buy that a big 1 group. Running off of a flowjet is easy and cheap. With care you can throw a good water filter in there too. Your only reservation should be the fact that "best" or even "most expensive" is a constantly moving target and there is a lot of advancement still to be made in bleeding edge espresso equipment.

Entry level now, big 1 group later?
If you're not prepared to drop 10K on equipment for a very specific culinary hobby but still feel that you're a type of person who eventually will, I would recommend that you buy a BDB or wait for the Decent machine, and then just get down to the business of making espresso. It's really quite difficult to do really well and experience + palate development are the things that matter most (and good beans, and good water). Pulling and tasting shots is a lot more important than obsessing over machine specs. Making good use of $9000 worth of temprature control and pressure/flow profiling requires mature shot pulling skills. Yes, you can fumble around as a newbie, but you aren't going to start plumbing the depths of what that big dog machine is capable of any sooner than you would starting out on a quality temp stable machine like the BDB, and the Decent machine may just blow the whole home espresso machine segment wide open...or not.

What about high end prosumer gear?
Having owned/worked on all sorts of machines from steam toys to modded GS3s to high end commercial machines, I happen to really like the value of a good e61 HX and the mature civility of the Vivaldi variants. If you just want a home espresso machine to make a handful of espresso based drinks a day, then there is absolutely a prosumer machine between $1500 and $4000 out there for you. If you aren't interested in approaching your coffee equipment as a gastonomic experiment, this is probably the right segment for you. If you're looking for value/$ and don't find yourself feeling insecure sharing the coffee forums with people who have a mid size sedan worth of coffee equipment, this is a good place for you.

I also think that every dedicated home barista should spend at least a year using a direct lever machine...

Its such a subjective decision and really all about what you WANT rather than what you need to make great coffee. Personally I would be aiming to get a commercial spring lever machine - because I have found they are the easiest machines for home users to constantly produce god shots on.

I do think your plan of buying a cheap machine for now makes sense, paired with that grinder it still capable of turning out better coffee than 90% of cafes if you actually know what you are doing and are a consistent operator. If owning the 'latest and greatest' is the most important thing for you then its also a better option as by the time you move into your new place there may be some new machine that is the darling of the 'latest and greatest' set!