For espresso, the K30 is probably even more convenient than the Vario/Forte. The stepless adjustment is easier, you activate it by pushing a button with the portafiler (rather than having a separate button as with the V/F), it is quicker, and (probably) quieter. The real advantage of the K30, however, is better in-the-cup taste. This likely reflects its burrset and overall engineering; grinding speed and heat build-up are irrelevant. I imagine the espresso machine is also irrelevant; the things that make a K30 grind superior to a Vario grind could be detected with either a Silvia or a GS/3.

My experience was that the Vario produced an excellent espresso grind. I really really liked it. I had some issues related to reliability, and Baratza was terrific about addressing the problems. But I stumbled into a good deal on a used Super Jolly, and that was a step above the Vario. The K30 is a large step up from the Super Jolly, so I suspect it would also be a large step up from the Vario/Forte. But given that my problems with the Vario were related to reliability and that the Forte is engineered with stronger materials, I suspect that if I had originally bought a Forte instead of a Vario, I would have been a happy camper.

Another question is whether to upgrade gradually or buy the best once and for all. The only people who can actually follow the "once and for all" strategy are those who are not tempted to upgrade. For the rest of us, we can't buy "the best once and for all" b/c every few years the "best" changes as manufacturers come out with new grinders and espresso machines (welcome to capitalism). I'm always tempted to upgrade; I "save" money by resisting the temptation as long as possible. If you're like me and are consistently tempted to upgrade, you'll save money by buying the Forte and learning it well. Then when you inevitably succumb to temptation and buy a new, more expensive grinder, you'll appreciate the improvement more and will have saved money by starting your spending at $1k rather than $1.6K. Also, if you find out that espresso at home is not for you after all, your experiment will have been less expensive.

Either of the grinders you are considering is capable of producing excellent espresso and making you happy. I think you're grappling with the question of whether spending more is worth it. I don't think anyone on this board can answer that for you.

Why not just order both the Vario/Forte and K30 Vario from a place with a Buyer's Remorse policy? Yes, you'll lose some money when you ship one of the grinders back (policy usually has buyer pay for shipping each way for grinder being returned), but it'll be far less than you would if you sold one to fund an upgrade later on. That would allow you to use it on whatever machine you decide, using your beans of preference, your routine, and evaluated by your palate. In my opinion, that's $30-$100 (depending on what grinder you choose) well spent and accounts for a very small portion of your overall budget.

If you KNOW you are okay with single dosing and don't mind spending the time, perhaps a K10PB is for you...or a HG One if you are okay with hand grinding, WDT, and RDT and want to save a couple $$.

Also, don't underestimate company service and parts availability down the road. A good deal today could be a paperweight tomorrow.

Just my $.02

I think if you had both machines in your kitchen side by side you would sometimes notice a difference. But really, you will likely not prepare coffee on both, blind taste test, etc. and so will *almost* never notice which grinder is best. For me I was perfectly happy with my Mazzer mini, UNTIL I had some coffee prepared on a Robur that was overloaded with a watermelon taste. I was floored by the watermelon. I bought a bag, came home, prepared it 16 different ways and NEVER a drop of watermelon.

Now, it could be that it was the chemex (i only have clever dripper), or better skills, but I think my skills and equipment are adequate and it is most likely the grinder. No way without having had the same coffee prepared on the Robur would I have known that I was missing the watermelon. Ive heard of blueberry coffee, never had it, etc. Now Im on a mission. Mahlkonig PEAK or Compak K10PB or HG One, I want fruits!

After studying the "Can it beat the Robur" thread, once you spend over $1200 its going to be a damn fine grinder, its just a question of wether it fits your style (retention, height, power, etc.). But I view your current grinder as pretty darn similar to my Mazzer mini in price and being a flat burr grinder. Mine scored a dismal -14 in the comparison to Robur. Yours wasnt tested, but I bet it is about the same.

I'm going to take a slightly different slant on this and suggest getting a good enough grinder that you're not questioning it and can focus on the coffee.

I have an Orphan Espresso Pharos with the "voodoodaddy mods" that improve its ergonomics. I also have a Fiorenzato Doge, which has the equivalent 68mm conical burrs. The grind quality and taste in the cup are equivalent. For both the sweet spot in grind adjustment is wider than with my Rio Super Jolly. I know that my grinders are good enough and my espresso machines are good enough that I should be able to get consistent shots and fine tune them to the coffee. Would I like the ergonomics better with a Compak or Mahkoenig? Probably, but not enough to justify the cost of trading up.

The last few weeks I've been using the Doge. I changed to a very different coffee two days ago, went finer in the grind and downdosed. I'm consistently dialed in for the new coffee.

If you're wondering about bang for your buck, it's hard to give a judgement (for you). I would highly suggest if you're able to, to try to taste some shots from a higher end grinder and see if it seems worth it to you. Often times you can post over in the cafe's and meet up forum, and find a HB member in your area to meet up with, ideally with the grinder you're considering.

For me I went through a lot of grinders, eventually ending up with a HG1 for a long time as an original pre-order user. Now I just bought a Compak K10, and having to decide between the two. Between them for single dosing, it's really just different routines, but more or less the same quality is my initial impression.

To me, if we are just talking about taste in the cup on say a Vario vs a titan conical. It's the difference between good espresso (vario) but relatively generic taste depending on the coffee vs espresso with dried fruit, powdered cocoa, marzipan etc. It's not that the flavors change, it's just that in a lower tier grinder you won't taste as many defined flavors as easily. Whether (a) you value this, and (b) you can taste the difference is something you need to decide or figure out. This is why I think either buying used or auditioning equipment would help a lot if you do go with the upper end.

Either way, it sounds like you're in store for some good espresso.... Good luck!

I have to admit to being very partial to the Hg-one. It has very low grinds retention. It grinds with amazing consistency. When broken in it grinds about a gram per turn of the crank. The other day there was a long power failure here. Although could not have espresso, I could make Turkish coffee just as well as ever! The Hg-one is ultra robust. It is ideal for one or two people, but grinds fast enough for many more than that. Furthermore if one have a supply of different coffees, everyone in a group can have their favourite because of the low retention. Although hand powered, it certainly is not a portable machine. It should outlast almost all other grinders by decades.

+1

The HG One gets summarily categorized as a "grinder for one" maybe two people - but I have entertained four people and find it just as fast - if not faster - than larger concial electric grinders, especially when changing beans and having to perform extra steps on the electrics to deal with retention.

I have been using the HG One daily for over a year now. I have completely lost my "upgraditis" on the grinder front, because I already have top notch conical "in the cup" performance on a home grinder that is just as fast or faster, more convenient, and less expensive than other conicals that are twice the size, weight and in some cases cost. And the fiddle factor and maintenance is near zero on the HG One - I rarely do anything to it, it just keeps ticking. Once in a while I wipe it down... that is about it.

I would have no issue recommending the HG One to anyone as a FIRST choice for a top of the heap conical - I don't agree you are sacrificing speed, convenience or anything else - I think the HG One has the edge for home use over most anything else on the market that can match "in the cup" conical performance.

And I have not even touched on your point about outlasting other grinders - hand tools *always* outlive electric machines and hold their value better in the long haul... the same is true in my woodworking, astronomy, etc.

Another option may be to consider the Ceado E37, about $1100 or so at WLL, not even midway between the Forte and K30. I personally don't own one but it seems to be well-reviewed here. As a Vario owner, those are the two I'm considering (someday - the busted air conditioner and pending new water heater are pushing that day out into the hazy future).

rpavlis wrote:I have to admit to being very partial to the Hg-one.

I wish HG-1 fans would stop recommending them to readers who are only asking about conventional motorized grinders. I get the "Robur at a discount" appeal. I get the steampunk aesthetic appeal. I get the DIY appeal.

But most people will be in for a big, unpleasant surprise when they stagger out of bed each morning and remember they have to crank this thing before they can have their coffee. I think that goes double (at least) for the women in the household.

I've tried the HG-1, BTW. They are definitely not for everyone.

Marshall wrote:I wish HG-1 fans would stop recommending them to readers who are only asking about conventional motorized grinders. I get the "Robur at a discount" appeal. I get the steampunk aesthetic appeal. I get the DIY appeal.

But most people will be in for a big, unpleasant surprise when they stagger out of bed each morning and remember they have to crank this thing before they can have their coffee. I think that goes double (at least) for the women in the household.

I've tried the HG-1, BTW. They are definitely not for every one.

I didn't scourge all the posts here but where did the OP say that he wasn't interested in an HG One or non-motorized equivalent? I would hardly say 'most people' would be in for a surprise and it seems like you're letting your bias out a little too much.

Most people don't mention an HG One in an initial post because they don't know about it. Easiest thing to do is just ignore a recommendation if you don't agree.