Hi all,

I've been espresso-less for about two months while waiting for parts for my CC1, and I've somehow found myself researching HX machines. It happens.

I'm looking in the $1500 CAD price range, and I am limiting my search to Canadian dealers due to the exchange rate at the moment. So far, I've found a number of contenders in my price range, but they all seem so similar that it's tough to really make a choice.

Usage:

• I make 1-2 small milk drinks (macchiato or cappuccino, rarely lattes) or Americanos on weekday mornings, and more like 4-5 on weekends. Occasionally I'll make a bunch in a row (4-6) when we have guests, and this is doable on the CC1 but takes a while.

Desired features:

• Steam milk and pull shots simultaneously. I'd also like to use the hot water tap for tea and Americanos.
• Reasonably large water reservoir and drip tray. I probably won't be able to plumb it in as it's in my dining room, and I'd rather not have to fill/empty it every day for the same reason.
• Narrow footprint (I'm looking at the ~10" range) - my coffee gear is all neatly contained in a tray on our sideboard, so I'd like to fit the new machine there.
• Reasonably quick to come to temperature for those weekday mornings. However, I could be open to putting it on a WeMo switch to make this less relevant.
• Few electronics. I found I didn't really use the programmability of the CC1 very much and the electronics have given me problems, so I'd like to stick to a more traditional/durable design. For this reason I'm excluding the Breville dual boiler.

Contenders:

• Bezzera BZ10 ($1500): I like the idea of the heated group head to come to temp quickly, and it seems like this one needs less of a cooling flush than E61s. I also like the dual pressure gauge and the lever operated steam wand, and from what I've heard it yields a "brighter" espresso than E61s (which I like). So far, this is my top contender.
• Magister Stella ($1300 open box, $1400 new): This seems to be the cheapest E61 around, but there's not a lot of info about it out there. No pressure gauge at brew head, but I'm not sure if that's actually useful or just interesting. No burn steam wand is nice. The price is appealing, but I'm hesitant to go with a relatively unknown brand.
• Vibiemme Junior ($1600): People seem to like this one for some reason. Any insight? Seems like a smaller than average boiler (1 L), but higher wattage (1600). Not sure if this is significant. Also, the water reservoir is 2L instead of the seemingly-standard 3L, which I consider a negative.
• Expobar Lever Premium VP Plus: ($1600): This one could potentially be plumbed in if we ever rearranged our kitchen, so it might be nice to have that option. However, it's still a vibe pump, so I'm not sure how good of an idea that is. The boiler is bigger than the others (1.8 L), but as I usually care about coming to temp more than back-to-back ability, this seems like it'd be a waste. No burn steam wand seems nice, but the plastic knobs seem fiddly compared to the on/off levers of the BZ10. Also, I think the BZ10 is prettier.

Hi fellow Canuck. I was in your shoes last summer. I went the E-61 HX route. So far very happy with my Magica. Excellent build quality and no problems so far. I have Erics thermometer as well, which is only for E-61s.

Guess you have to decide which group you want. The Bezzera/Elektra group of the BZ10 or the E61. The former has a reputation for clarity, as you alluded to, while the latter has a reputation for accentuating bass notes. I've never done a side by side comparison. And I've only ever had one shot from an Elektra grouped machine, so I can't advise on the group distinctions. From what I've read the BZ10 will heat up faster with the electrically heated group. For an E61 you need a minimum warm up of 45 minutes, an hour is optimal.

I have mine on a weMo switch and it works great. I have a pre programmed schedule for each day. And can control it remotely via my phone.

I actually don't drink many milk drinks, mostly shots. But when I do need to steam, I appreciate the instant, on-demand steaming of the HX. In fact, it's almost too powerful for me when steaming only 4 to 5oz of milk.

The Bezzeras also have a copper boiler, not sure about the others.

Also, how much depth can you accommodate? You only mention 10 inches wide. I think mine is about 18" deep, if I remember correctly.

I've seen the magister Stella in person at idrinkcoffee. I live only 25 minutes drive from their showroom. That's where I bought my K10PB, Magica and Vario. The Stella seemed fine, but judging by looks alone, it didn't quite have the build quality of the Bezzeras, Rockets, Quickmills etc.

I hear you on the Canadian dollar plummeting. I bought my setup before the big currency drop. The setup I bought last summer would cost me $500 more today with the recent price increases.

My advice is buy the best setup you can afford, since skimping even a few hundred now might have you kicking yourself down the road. Especially since you're already upgrading from a CC1. I imagine you don't want to upgrade again in a year.

I think there are some Calgary based retailers you could visit in person, if I'm not mistaken. Better than dealing with shipping headaches, especially if there's an issue or need for service later on.

Happy hunting!

Hi,

I am obviously biased since I bought the Magister Stella over the holidays. After giving alot (maybe too much!) thought and trying out Quickmills, Rockets and so on, I came to the conclusion that they are equivalent to the Stella Pro.

As far as build quality is concerned, the interior components are essentially the same you would find in all the other pricier E61s. I would agree with Ryan though that the finish is not as spectacular as what you can find on the Rocket, Bezzera and Quickmill of this world. It is why I decided to switch the stock handle to the joystick ones from Chris' Coffee.



I would buy it again. If you have any questions, do not hesitate.

Edit: whoa, a bunch of responses since I started typing this... I'll reply to them all together.

@canuckcoffeeguy: Oh man, I'm glad you mentioned the depth. I just went and measured, and if I want to use the same tray then I'm limited to 16.25". I've actually got more flexibility on the width, and could probably push it to 13" by rearranging things. The BZ10 says that it's 16.75" deep, but it *might* fit if the feet are set back a bit (which looks like the case from the pictures). None of the others are likely to fit, unless I abandon the sideboard coffee area and try to find room for it in the kitchen. Sigh.

Thanks for your assessment of the Stella. I knew it had to compromise somewhere, and I don't think it's worth saving a couple hundred bucks over the better-known (and possibly better supported) brands.

I actually kind of worry about the too-powerful steaming thing, as I usually want to do the 4-5 oz range. The only times I'm steaming more than that is when I'm making two drinks simultaneously. Hopefully this is something that can be fixed with practice.

Finally, I agree with you - I'd rather not have to upgrade in a few years again. I said that my budget is around $1500, but I could be convinced to go higher if it seems worthwhile. On the other hand, I don't really *need* to upgrade from the CC1...

@someguy12: Glad to see there's a few people out there with the Stellas! For now I think it's too big for my coffee spot, but I'll definitely keep you in mind if I decide to move it.

@baldheadracing: I hadn't even considered a lever machine, but that sure is pretty! I would consider it in price range too, especially with the current 5% off sale (doesn't apply to the Bezzera for some reason, but does to the Elektra). It certainly would fit in the space, but is an entirely different direction. I'm not sure if this is an "every morning before work" type of machine though.

The QuickMill Anita is also within price range. What advantage would you say it has over the other E61s that I've mentioned, or the Bezzera?

As for my CC1, it's had a few problems. Less than a year in the electronics started going a bit wonky - the most significant issue is the start/stop button doesn't always respond, so I sometimes end up overextracting. It hasn't gotten any worse though, so I've just lived with it. The big problem now is the steam valve is shot, so if I turn it on it just constantly steams until the boiler runs dry. I contacted Bill Crossland and he said it's probably just the o-rings and seals giving out after a few years, so I'm waiting on replacements.

baldheadracing wrote:Have a read of Mark Prince's ancient review on CG (which is almost MCaL worship)...

Wow, that guy sure likes his MCaL! I am, admittedly interested. However, this line stood out:

Other testers, including people weighing 120 lbs or less found it much more difficult, so this is not a machine for people who might be "height challenged" or without the proper leverage strength.

I am both "height challenged" and under 120 lbs, so this may not be a machine I want to wrestle with first thing in the morning.

Charbucks wrote:I actually kind of worry about the too-powerful steaming thing, as I usually want to do the 4-5 oz range. The only times I'm steaming more than that is when I'm making two drinks simultaneously. Hopefully this is something that can be fixed with practice.

Yes it can. I steam for a cap' in ~10 seconds on my Synesso Cyncra at the Roastery and actually find it easier to get good texture than triple the time slower vortex on my Vesuvius or previously Quickmill V2B or previously Vibiemme Double Domo or previously Fiorenzato Bricoletta or previously Miss Silvia. That said it's also easier to learn steaming for 2 caps' at once (or one 12 or 16oz latte) in ~20 or 25sec with real steam volume and velocity but once you master steaming a cap' in 10sec slow steaming machines are a PIA and difficult to get as good texture!

Having a HX machine is nice usability upgrade over a single boiler dual mode machine. I never met anyone who's regretted the decision.

Between an E61 machine and BZ10 I'd be personally to go for an E61 variant (just because they're tried, tested and true). You also get a larger boiler which will give better steaming performance, and usually a quicker recovery. And while I know you want a small footprint, keep in mind with the narrow BZ10 width comes a smaller drip tray.

Personally, if it was me, I'd for the Magister if on a budget, or save a little longer for the Bezzera Magica E61 (idrinkcoffee runs sales every few months, 10%ish off). Or here's a slightly better machine as a 1week old return, Rocket Cellini Plus PID v3:
http://www.espressotec.com/index.php/es ... -6055.html

The other option is waiting for something to come up used. They always do if you're willing to wait.

Then as mentioned in PM, I have a Strega which I'll be listing soon (not at all trying to push my stuff, just wanted to mention). If you like the idea of levers, many here on HB like them. If not, I'd still recommend an E61.

At the end of the day, just make sure you have a good grinder, and you're good to go. When you get to this point, they're all pretty good machines. They all have their own quirks (such as flushing on HX's, etc.) aesthetics, and features. They're also all similar in price, so my honest advise is to get whatever one you want the most. Then enjoy using it

Cheers!