Hello, just started posting a bit on this cool site.

I'm building a budget to change my espresso equipment.

I am currently using a Saeco aroma knock-off and an isomac granmacinino (grandmacino? or whatever, i can never remember it right... )

I'm getting sour shots most of the time, although they are bearable in a cap. I've meddled around with distribution a LOT and haven't found that much improvement. I'm starting to doubt the grinder, as well as the machine to a second degree. The good news is that i'm improving my latte art and can actually make rosettas (half of the time...) after taking off the turbo frother on the plastic wand.

The machine is over ten years old so i figure i need to change it anyway.

I will need to upgrade in two shots since i've blown most of my cash on mountain bikes in the past years. I have read lots of posts and i am intending to change the grinder first because i think this will yield the most improvement.

I don't think i'll get to upgrade much in the future since we need to take care of other details such as the house and furniture so i am aiming at equipment that i will use to many many years.

I looked at the Vario but am unsure of durability with all the plastic. I was eyeballing the mazzer mini in the store the other day... then i started looking at the mazzer mini e, but thought it was expensive and seemed to require some post grind distribution (WDT, etc). As such, i was leaning toward the mazzer mini again and then realized i could get a new super jolly for less than the mini e.

SO... i might end up with a mini or super jolly sitting next to my Angeli single boiler, dual purpose el-cheapo machine for a year while i gather more funds for the Andreja Premium.

I am nuts? My wife thinks i am.

"that thing (the super jolly) costs twice as much as our machine!" she says

"besides, i love your caps and the latte artsy thing is coming along well" she adds offhandedly

"but dear, have you tasted the shots? They are sour, hell they smell sour!" i say, a bit flustered.

I am doing the right thing right? I will print your responses and stick them on the fridge to sway the powers that be!

I believe the Vario is the best combination of capable grinding and durability for anywhere near the money. I have never found any issues with the fact that plastic (tough plastic) is used.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but -- in your shoes -- I'd look at either a new Baratza Vario or a used Mazzer Super Jolly + a new set of burrs.

Upgrading might give you more consistent results. That said, espresso is largely about beans and temperature. In the meantime, try a few different espresso blends, and some temp-surfing. Try flushing a lot of water then pulling a shot, then no flush. This will give you the cool and hot ends of the spectrum. I used Saecos for a while and was able to get good shots with good beans and a decent hand grinder. I like to dose on the fuller side.

PC

Marc,

The Baratza Vario has a huge following so I can only conclude that they are right and I am wrong about the vario. I had one in my home for a week and despised it from the first time I used it. The controls would lock in place and half way through a grind it would pop down into the next notch. I had to use duct tape to hold it in place. I had to use the plastic cup to collect the grinds and then pour into the PF over the sink. If I used the prong PF holder grinds were spread all over the place. The WAF was not very high at that point. Although the use of plastic doesn't appear to affect the grind I can't imagine what would happen if it fell off the counter. In my opinion your intuition is correct. Recently I found a used Super Jolly that looked like it had been through a war. I needed a second grinder and would not use it often. I now understand why everyone recommends the SJ. A new set of burrs and a couple hours cleaning it up makes it perfect for what I want to use it for.

The one that I have is the doserless model which I prefer.

In this respect Nik's experience is idosyncratic and I believe that he is correct - he is wrong. Not even close for the two or three units I am familiar with including my own.

Perhaps, but the test would be for it to it to hit the floor and then we will see who is correct and of course how long it will last compared to an SJ or any other substantially built grinder.

Bob

Hi Bob,

FWIW - I am a newbie to the espresso world too. I convinced the Mrs to go used as I wanted a really good machine but she didn't want to me to pay $750+ for a grinder. Last week I posted a WTB in the classifieds over on Coffeegeek and got 2 very quick responses. I ended up with a used Rio Normale (Mazzer Super Jolly) for ~40% the cost of a new SJ.

For the same money I could have essentailly bought a new Rocky, Ascaso etc. However, I knew I would want better sooner rather than later (I will probably want better than this anyway but hopefully not as soon :>) so I ended up with a $750+ machine at a fraction of the price. Was in really nice, clean shape too and am replacing the burrs as I read "just do it" when you get a used machine!

I looked at the Vario as well and despite the overwhelming evidence about how good they are, I like the "old-school" hunk of metal with the Mazzer and I can't get beyond the plastic (yes, I know I should! :>).

Anyway, best of luck with your search and ultimate decision.

Bob

Nik wrote:Perhaps, but the test would be for it to it to hit the floor and then we will see who is correct and of course how long it will last compared to an SJ or any other substantially built grinder.

Bob

Never been frustrated enough with a grinder to throw it on the floor. But doesn't seem like ordinary and normal use to me.

Vario is a great grinder for the price, really, go that way for the price. Ultra practical for home use, small footprint, consistent.