In Italy, where i live, most people worry about the quality of their coffee only if they're drinking it "neat," or without milk. People will go out of their way to get to a bar that serves exceptionally good coffee if they are having it after breakfast, when they drink it without milk. Italians generally drink coffee with milk only for breakfast, and then, if they are having breakfast away from home, they generally choose the bar on the basis of the pastries or the company, and not on the coffee. The attitude toward coffee with milk is similar to that of water with wine. Once you add water, or anything else to wine, there is absolutely no sense in worrying about the quality of the wine. The same goes for coffee with milk. You simply want a coffee that is strong enough to carry the milk in your macchiato, cappuccino, or caffè con latte.

That being said, I would like recommendations on espresso machines designed to make excellent espresso, without having to worry about the complications, or expense, of steaming milk. I would also like recommendations on grinders. To make my morning caffè con latte, I'm perfectly content to continue using my Alice electric mocca and heating the milk in the microwave. Thanks.

Check out the review of the Alexia with PID on this site.

BTLeimsidor wrote:That being said, I would like recommendations on espresso machines designed to make excellent espresso, without having to worry about the complications, or expense, of steaming milk. I would also like recommendations on grinders. .

Boy....tall order. Knowing your budget will very helpful in providing recommendations as machines "designed to make excellent espresso" can range from $300-10,000 US$.

Think of espresso machines has hot water delivery devices that provide 9-10bar pressure to the portafilter. The best machines deliver consistent temperature of water shot to shot with variations in build that change a bit how you interact with the machines. Commercial/semi-pro machines are designed to be on 24/7 and due to their large size provide excellent temperature consistency. Smaller machines for the home can be turned on an off, need to be warmed up for 30-60min and can give perhaps less consistent results. Temperature does make a difference between beans.

In your search, single boiler or heat exchange (HX) machines are what you are looking for. While these can steam milk well they aren't built primarily to provide that function such as a double boiler machine. Manual lever machines are another option with their own set of people obsessed with them and might be a great way to get into better espresso.

Keep reading and see what others are using. I think that there is a method to the madness and you see that many high end coffee lovers end up with an E61 based HX machine which usually start in the $1000 range.

Grinder is a HUGE part of the experience and if you want to get the most out of your experience you need a good one...probably should spend more on that than the machine at some point. Again prices from $400-3000. At this point, the cheapest I would consider to really jump start your setup is the Baratza Vario.

Bex wrote:Check out the review of the Alexia with PID on this site.

This was where my research led me when I was looking for an espresso-only machine. Then I realized that my wife prefers milk-based coffee drinks and would better suffer yet another of my hobby-obsessions if I could make her some outstanding caps and lattes. Of course, then I needed a machine that could steam and brew, was plumbed in, etc. etc. etc.

Check out Chris' walkthrough of the Quickmill line up...

BTLeimsidor wrote:Why worry about steaming milk?

Well, clearly some people don't . . .

BTLeimsidor wrote:In Italy, where i live, most people worry about the quality of their coffee only if they're drinking it "neat," or without milk . . . I would like recommendations on espresso machines designed to make excellent espresso, without having to worry about the complications, or expense, of steaming milk. I would also like recommendations on grinders. To make my morning caffè con latte, I'm perfectly content to continue using my Alice electric mocca and heating the milk in the microwave. Thanks.

Bruce, I have a couple of thoughts for you . . .

If you are serious about never being able to steam milk, I would give serious consideration to finding an Arrarex Caravel, a Fe-Ar Peppina, Faema Faemina, or other straight espresso machine off of the Italian eBay site. (Click here for an example of what I mean.) The quality of espresso -- especially from the Caravel -- is excellent. On the other hand, if you want something more "modern," I would concur that the Quick Mill Elaine* would be a good choice. I'd also look at the Isomac Venus, and perhaps a Ponte Vecchio Lusso.

For a grinder, I would strongly suggest you look at purchasing a Mahlkönig VARIO Home.

NOTE: all links above lead to European sources, rather than to those in North America.

Cheers,
Jason

* With regard to the specific suggestions you've received about the Quick Mill Alexia, keep in mind that this is a machine that Chris' Coffee Service designed in conjunction with Quick Mill. So far as I know, it is available only in North America and only as a 110v machine. Furthermore, from Chris' Coffee Service website:

We started with a model Quick Mill already manufactured called the Eliane. Eliane is an excellent single boiler machine that makes exceptional quality espresso . . .

clumeng wrote:In your search, single boiler or heat exchange (HX) machines are what you are looking for. While these can steam milk well they aren't built primarily to provide that function such as a double boiler machine.

I suggest looking also into DB - those steam boilers can be switched off on some machines, like Vivaldi for example, and on HX it never can be off - this reduces electricity costs on DB vs HX.
And sure, if you are into levers, +1 the recommendations already made.
For grinder - consider how are you going to drink the coffees? Will you switch coffees? There's a lot of choices and better make one with which you will not limit yourself.

Pawel?

CoffeeOwl wrote:I suggest looking also into DB - those steam boilers can be switched off on some machines, like Vivaldi for example, and on HX it never can be off - this reduces electricity costs on DB vs HX.

On a Double Boiler (DB) machine, you have TWO boilers, and you are correct that -- on some DB machines -- you can turn off one of the two boilers. And running a DB machine on one boiler will save on your electricity costs compared to running a DB with both boilers.

But when you say that the boiler on a Heat Exchanger (HX) machine "can never be off," this is not only factually incorrect (obviously you can turn off the entire machine by flipping a switch), but also very misleading. As there is only ONE boiler on an HX machine, to turn the boiler off is indeed to turn off the machine, period. And how would, for example, an HX machine with a 1200 watt heating element for the boiler be more expensive to use than a DB machine with a 1200 watt element for the brew boiler and an 800 watt element for the steam boiler if you turn off the latter? You still have 1200 watts versus 1200 watts . . .

Cheers,
Jason

To be fair, it would be slightly cheaper to run the brew boiler of a DB without the steam boiler over a HX, as the HX boiler is running hotter than the DB's brew boiler, so will lose more heat to the atmosphere. It really isn't an amount worth worrying about though!

zin1953 wrote: As there is only ONE boiler on an HX machine, to turn the boiler off is indeed to turn off the machine, period. And how would, for example, an HX machine with a 1200 watt heating element for the boiler be more expensive to use than a DB machine with a 1200 watt element for the brew boiler and an 800 watt element for the steam boiler if you turn off the latter? You still have 1200 watts versus 1200 watts . . .

I think the point is that the boiler of an HX machine will always be at "steam temperature" (i.e., the heater will be on more of the time to maintain the higher temp). In contrast, SB and DB machines both have a "low power" mode, either by turning off the steam boiler, or by leaving the SB set to brew temp.