Hello, everyone!

I'm new to the forum, so a brief introduction is in order. I'm a college student in SE Portland who has recently become very interested in espresso. I've been going through the process of trying to figure out how to make decent espresso, and have realized that I desperately need a grinder. While I need a new machine as mine is, to put it nicely, 'difficult', I'd like to get a grinder first, and one I'll never need to replace.

A little bit of background for those of you who are interested -- if you're in a rush, just skip over it - the main question is which grinder to get!

---- ---- ----

The espresso machine that I have currently is a little problematic - it's a middle-of-the-road Krups model (5000?) with a vibratory pump and a 53 mm pressurized portafilter. As I'm sure you're all aware, this is not so good. First, it's quite problematic because the temperature fluctuates wildly, and the hole in the pressurized portafilter constantly clogs when a grind fine enough to slow its extraction time is used. (I also read that with a vibratory pump, changing the coarseness of the grind increases the extraction pressure drastically.)

I've been going to Stumptown coffee quite a lot lately, and I've started to recognize what good espresso should taste like. The biggest difference between theirs and mine is the mouthfeel and the fullness of it. Mine is tolerably flavored although a bit too bitter, but it's watery; it really benefits from sugar which 1) fixes the mouthfeel and 2) masks the bitterness. Theirs is syrupy and wonderful, and sugar messes it up - it's unnecessary. The crema mine produces is a light brown bordering on blonde, whereas theirs is black and speckled.

In any case, I would like eventually to be able to produce espresso of that sort. In the meantime, I need a grinder because the espresso goes from tasting wonderful to being 'rancid' and undrinkable within two days after grinding.

---- ---- ----

I want to get a grinder now that I'll never have to upgrade, because in about a year I'll want to get a good machine and be ready for it. So:

Mazzer Mini / Mazzer Super Jolly?

or

Macap M4 Stepless, when it's released?

I really like the idea of the Cimbali Jr's stepless adjustment system, and while the Mazzer is excellent looking and I'd rather get that one, I'm a little worried that since I'll just be using it for espresso, I could do better. If the Macap M4 stepless uses a little turn-y knob, as it looks like it does, do you suppose it will be able to imitate the fine control that the Cimbali Jr. has over grind? If so, would it be a better choice than the Mazzer Mini? And is there any effective difference between the Mini and the Super Jolly for home use?

I'd been a little reluctant about the Cimbali Jr. because I really prefer the appearance of the Mazzer / Macap style. The Cimbali looks too chunky. Not relevant to espresso quality, I know, but it's a consideration.

One last important consideration: I travel semi-constantly, so once or twice a year I'll need to pack it up and move it. Sturdiness is very important, and if the Macap or Cimbali construction was weaker than the Mazzer, that would decide the issue totally.

Thank you all for any help you can provide!

Michael Salk wrote:If the Macap M4 stepless uses a little turn-y knob, as it looks like it does, do you suppose it will be able to imitate the fine control that the Cimbali Jr. has over grind? If so, would it be a better choice than the Mazzer Mini? And is there any effective difference between the Mini and the Super Jolly for home use?

First of all, the choices you note are very good ones. The Macap M4 stepless is due to arrive tomorrow and I'll be updating the grinder review to include it. I will gladly investigate any questions you pose. Like you, I would like to know the precision of the adjustment mechanism.

As for the Mini versus Super Jolly, I've noted that the bigger the grinder, the more aggressively it "throws" the grinds out of the chute. The Mini's weakness in this regard is how modestly it ejects the grinds, almost to the point that it "extrudes," which means you must pay extra attention to your distribution technique. This distinction is less noticeable between the Jolly and Mini, but there's no mistaking it between the Mini and Major.

Hey Dan --

Thanks for your earlier help. I put in a tentative order for the MACAP M4 stepless because I can't imagine it will be worse than the Mazzer Mini. It's also cheaper and prettier, so it seems like a good deal, esp. because in all of the categories in your review except for tweakability, it does better than the Mazzer. It's backordered though, so it won't ship out for another month. Looking forward to the review. In any case, the M4 will certainly be better than having beans ground at Stumptown.

Do you think that I will ever be able to get a modestly decent shot out of the Krups machine? The manual says the pump's max pressure is 15 bar (!) but I have no idea what it actually runs at, nor how to control the temperature - it gets hot quickly, but if I'm not careful it overheats and starts to splutter steam, but I don't know whether one can do a cooling flush or if that'll just make it hotter, and if it's just totally futile even to try to figure out what temperature it's at. Is it, or would it work similarly to, a HX machine? Then I'd try to follow your cooling-flush instructions. It says it uses "Thermoblock heating technology"; god only knows what that means. (Or at least, I don't.)

I've considering replacing the pressurized basket with a different non-pressurized 53 mm double-shot basket if I could find one that would fit, and also trying to figure out a way to measure the pressure, but on a $200 machine doing that would probably cost half its value. I think it's probably best just to hold out for a new one at some point.

Michael Salk wrote:Do you think that I will ever be able to get a modestly decent shot out of the Krups machine?

Sorry, I have no experience with that particular machine, but on specs its pressurized portafilter, unregulated brew pressure, and thermoblock are three strikes against it.

The manual says the pump's max pressure is 15 bar (!) but I have no idea what it actually runs at, nor how to control the temperature - it gets hot quickly, but if I'm not careful it overheats and starts to splutter steam, but I don't know whether one can do a cooling flush or if that'll just make it hotter, and if it's just totally futile even to try to figure out what temperature it's at. Is it, or would it work similarly to, a HX machine?

Jim's Home Barista's Guide to Espresso covers different boiler designs including thermoblocks. It's a long read, but worth your time. The Getting Started section of the Resources page is my recommended reading. Back to your question, a thermoblock flash heats the water passing through it. I don't believe you can regulate the brew temperature on your machine.

Yes, that's what it seems like. I did a lot of searching about Thermoblock stuff last night, and found some good articles. It seems like they tend to run hot in the first second or two (hence the burst of steam when it's very hot) but can't maintain their temperature, which might explain why most of the shots come out sour.

Thanks for the recommendations.

As Chris Nachtrieb mentioned in the Marketplace, he sent me the Macap M4 stepless grinder to update the Feature Spotlight on Espresso Grinders. It's been about a year since I evaluated the stepped Macap M4, so tonight I would like to note some observations while the differences between my usual Mazzer Mini and the new Macap are fresh in my mind.

Appearance

The Mazzer almost looks stately next to the flashy chrome Macap. The exterior paint and the chrome comparison isn't the only visual difference: The Mazzer uses matt-finish black plastic and the Macap uses plastics with a high-gloss finish. Tinting the Macap's hopper and doser was a good idea, not only because reduces the beans' exposure to light, but it also hides scratches and smudges. The Macap has a black plastic trim piece over the metal adjustment collar compared to the Mazzer's solid chrome-plated metal ring; black slotted vent covers are on each side of the Macap. The Mazzer has a "solid metal" look to it.

Ergonomics

The Macap's doser arm has a very springy, fluid feel to it. The "clack" at the stop is crisp, but louder than the Mazzer. As noted in the review, the Macap sweeps very cleanly. However, I've modified the Mini to best the Macap's sweep efficiency by a hair:


Increase sweep efficiency by adding tape to the trailing edge of the Mazzer's doser vanes

The Macap's portafilter rest offers no ledge for grounds to collect; the distance between the portafilter rest and the bottom of the doser is tighter for the Macap than the Mazzer. Trivial point, but I found it interesting how accustom I've become to the placement of the doser handle, power switch, and portafilter rest. Overall great ergonomics. The switch cover, however, is annoying. The rocker power switch has a clear rubbery cover over it, presumably to prevent the grinder for accidentally being started by a casual bump against the switch. A brief visit with Mr. Exacto-Knife would cure that annoyance (kidding! do not disable safety devices). Although some rail against the timer switch on the Mazzer, I don't mind it. It turns back easily to the off position, and it prevents the grinder from running unattended.

Macap was the first to introduce the "shorter" hopper so their grinder would fit under US cabinets. I suspect some buyers went for the Macap over the Mini simply for that reason; Mazzer followed suit a few months later by introducing their own vertically-challenged hopper (now the standard). The major difference between the two grinders remained the stepped versus stepless settings and I frequently wondered why Macap didn't introduce a stepless sooner.

Below is a picture of the stepped M4 adjustment collar with the "trim ring" removed:


The setting pin locks into holes drilled in the bottom of the metal adjustment collar

Seeing the new stepless version, I see they neatly modified the existing model by replacing the plastic trim ring with a toothed one and then bolting the worm-gear adjustment onto the top of the grinder along the backside (Macap will be at the SCAA conference and I'm sure enthusiasts in attendance will nag them to offer a "retrofit kit" for the M4). I'll figure out how many finger turns of the stepless correspond to one increment of the stepped M4, but my guess is that it's around one turn. I remember the worm drive on the Cimbali Junior being a little finer, though I don't have the two side-by-side for direct comparison. In any case, I found it easy to make minute adjustments to compensate for pour time differences of a couple seconds.

Bottom line: It's a keeper.

(Sorry for the brevity, I'm fighting a cold and nasty cough...)

sweet review.

Michael, im in se- next to reed.

You are welcome to check out my stepped Macap m4.
Im totally interested in their new adjuster.

I have yet to make the doser sweep nice, but ive totally taken off the
safety devices. Totally inviting death into my kitchen.

well, finger death and electrical.

I wouldnt mind checking this new adjuster out....
-joel d

I am considering a Macap MC-4 (doserless) to go with my Euripiccola. I will need it for grinding both filter coffee and espresso. From postings here and elsewhere as well as early reviews everyone seems quite enthusiastic about the stepless model which is now being imported. Can anyone who has had experience with the stepless comment on the ease of making larger changes in the grind compared to the older stepped model. One posting suggested that it would take twenty turns of the adjustment wheel to make such a change. Does anyone know?

Thanks.

jp wrote:Can anyone who has had experience with the stepless comment on the ease of making larger changes in the grind compared to the older stepped model. One posting suggested that it would take twenty turns of the adjustment wheel to make such a change. Does anyone know?

I believe that was me. Just remeasured and approximately 1/1-2 turns of the worm gear adjustment corresponds to one increment of the stepped M4. Can an owner of an M4 who makes frequent changes between espresso range and presspot range comment on the number of stops between these two settings? Then we can do the math for the total number of turns for the stepless M4.

The adjustment advances reasonably fast, but I would find the back-and-forth tedious everyday. A few times a week would be tolerable. Switching back-and-forth with the stepped grinder takes only seconds. If you like to make minute adjustments, the Macap's stepless is easier than the two-handed Mazzer adjustments. The Cimbali Junior's worm drive movement is even smaller, which is great for espresso, but makes it intolerable for switching back-and-forth (a friend borrow the Junior for a couple weeks during testing and threatened to hook a drill onto the adjustment wheel because he liked espresso in the morning, presspot in the afternoon).