miKe mcKoffee wrote:Using the flush & go technique Chris mentioned in his review works great for allowing simply listen for end of flash, count down one thousand one, one thousand two etc. lowering temp 1f per count from known end of flash temp to attain desired temp I want, lock and pull. The three shots I pulled so far today were all at different temps (two different SOs and a blend).
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Hi mike --

I wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed your comparison of the two machines -- very interesting! While I have tentatively (for the moment, maybe!) decided to stick with my Gaggia Classic for a while (no room in my kitchen for these giant machines!) I continue to internally debate the two types of machines -- I guess I'll continue to shop for a year or two, then buy my next machine -- kind of like a car! Anyway, my question is this: I have been confused no end by the "flush and go" description for HX, so at the risk of sounding quite silly, I'll ask my definitive questions: You listen or watch the flash, then count down immediately after the flash ends-- I assume while you are counting you are continuing to flush, is that right? And you are counting down from 206 degrees (the flash point) -- am I right? Once you count down, (and continue your flush) you lock and pull, right? Now, for subsequent shots -- you still listen for the flash (or watch) but it will be a lot shorter duration, I assume, if the shot is a few minutes after the first -- am I right? And you continue then to countdown from there until you reach your desired temp, then lock and pull? Two other questions here: is it easy to know when the flash has ended? Is there a pause or anything before the solid stream? (yes, I have seen the video, but the demarcation was not all that clear for me.) And, if you are making back to back shots, is there a speed at which you can run where you do not have to flush at all in between the shots? (I assume you always have to flush after steaming, right?)

My apologies for these absurd questions -- but to me, it feels more intuitive to flush and go, especially since I am not the fastest at dosing and distribution, so I don't want to have to rush those steps after that first flush. So I like the concept of flush and go but still can't quite fully understand it. Any help you can provide would be most welcome, as I'd like to save those extra hundreds and go with an HX rather than the Brewt, if only for looks alone!

Bah, I'll probably buy a new machine sooner rather than later -- can't get past the fever!

HB wrote:Yes, I puzzled over your comment, as I used it for several months and didn't observe the "temperature creep" you reported. As noted in Abe's writeup, the initial offset setting assumes "from idle" usage, not shot-after-shot usage. My initial thought on reading your comment was that you were flushing a lot, which is a hard habit for former HX owners to break. That is, not heeding Abe's "lazy man" flush chart for Brewtus may explain what you observed, but that's only a guess.

I don't think the shot creep had anything to do with initial E61 warming flush. But yes, after every shot I always grouphead flush & PF wiggle flush, always. Then build the next shot. But pulling the next shot in under a minute, even 90sec from end of wiggle flush, IIRC even 2 min, the temp rose shot to shot and stabilized at 205.6/205.7f, regardless the brew boiler setting. (Before removing brew boiler insulation). Really seems the HX feeding the brew boiler was/is improperly tuned on this particular Brute.

I'm obviously not that technically minded, I don't own a Fluke or Scace or for that matter another pressure gauge, though I may someday own all three. For now I am quite happy to bumble along without external devices. I do own a BII and I do pull a lot of different SO beans and homemade blends at different temps. I like experimenting. Perhaps with less data analysis than some. I probably understand my machine less that I should but that's my downfall as perhaps foolishly I experiment with taste rather than data collection (though I understand the benefits to data collection and am not trying to minimize anyone else's approach). For Brewtus resources I really appreciate the Brewtus Users group which has done a lot of work and reported a lot of data that I thought was quite useful. I also enjoyed reading the technical observations on the BI in this thread, thx. Abe's review on this site, on the BII helped me a lot and I still refer back to it now and then. Having said all that...

I like the BII. It comes with its own set of pros and cons; like any machine. What might work very well for me, may not suit you or someone else. I like the ease of setting a temp and knowing it will do what it is supposed to do with very little fuss.
Today I have pulled approx eight shots. Choosing from three of six jars. I pulled SO and also blended it up. I did change temp twice. With the exception of one shot, I enjoyed them all. My shots are pulled in a leisurely fashion, (I'm not a demanding customer, and my kitchen isn't a commercial environment, haha) but I am reasonably precise in my shot process though I also use some intuitive feel as well. I guess there isn't a point to this post other than to say I really enjoy what I get from the BII. I know I'm not totally out of whack as I still mentally compare the end result in the cup to other espresso I have tasted which have been pulled by barista's far more talented than I on much more exotic hardware at the SCAA.

Taste is a funny thing. What I like you may not. Fortunately I have found that the BII allows me to taste espresso as I see fit to taste it, understanding that the BII is only a small part of a larger chain of events which starts (for me) by sourcing really good green beans. I think if you got the BII you would be happy. You would no doubt also be happy with a number of other excellent machine choices. You are doing the right thing; asking questions, listening to opinions and doing due diligence. Don't compromise on the research leading up to your purchase, research is free. Once you purchase your machine, its time to enjoy pulling shots.

HB wrote: As noted in Abe's writeup, the initial offset setting assumes "from idle" usage, not shot-after-shot usage. My initial thought on reading your comment was that you were flushing a lot, which is a hard habit for former HX owners to break.

I think I definitely ruled out offset as an issue and anything that had to do with the brew boiler itself. And believe or nuts, I did read the manual's suggestion of 2oz E61 warming flush and started from there. Even when I set the brew boiler way down to 80c still maintained ~205.6f shot temps in a series! Now that 24oz non-stop pull at ~2oz/25sec wasn't replicating a shot, just attempting to determine the approx' water temp feeding the brew boiler. Was very bizarre watching the Thermofilter rock solid minutely toggling 205.6/205.7f for the entire 24oz with the brew boiler basically turned off! That's when I came to the conclusion the boiler inlet water had to be too high. Had to be or my thinking totally out of whack. But that test was done only after observing shot to shot temp creep. And that also told me that with the HX feeding the brew boiler properly tuned that puppy could be intra shot temp rock stable.

miKe mcKoffee wrote:Even when I set the brew boiler way down to 80c still maintained ~205.6f shot temps in a series! Now that 24oz non-stop pull at ~2oz/25sec wasn't replicating a shot, just attempting to determine the approx' water temp feeding the brew boiler. Was very bizarre watching the Thermofilter rock solid minutely toggling 205.6/205.7f for the entire 24oz with the brew boiler basically turned off!

I'm glad that wasn't my machine! Vibratory pumps are only meant to run for one minute with one minute of rest. Wouldn't 24 ounces exceed that several times over? I cannot make any sense out of what you describe or what you are doing to "test" it. Maybe the Expobar factory worker forgot they were assembling a Brewtus and accidently hooked the HX line directly to the grouphead instead of dumping into the brew boiler...

(I'm kidding)

HB wrote:I cannot make any sense out of what you describe or what you are doing to "test" it.

Your replies to my posts make it very clear you are not understanding the observed symptoms, nor probable root cause. Detailed answer on what how and why given once again in Knockbox thread replying to your last post there.

I know it is a long time since this thread was active. But Maskedman, which machine did you choose to buy? and why?

I am in a similar situation and has almost chosen the Andreja Premium.

Regards
kh

kh wrote:I know it is a long time since this thread was active. But Maskedman, which machine did you choose to buy? and why?

I am in a similar situation and has almost chosen the Andreja Premium.

Regards
kh

You may want to check out Buyer's Guide to the Vibiemme Domobar Super

A couple of months before the original post, those three machines were on the short list. The Vibiemme made the cut and I have 0 regrets.

kh wrote:I know it is a long time since this thread was active. But Maskedman, which machine did you choose to buy? and why?

I am in a similar situation and has almost chosen the Andreja Premium.

Regards
kh

Hi Kh,

After having some trouble getting a Brewtus II from a danish dealer I finally caved in and bought a Andreja Premium.

I haven't looked back since and I've been very very happy with the machine and the quality of my coffee.

You won't regret buying one that's for sure.

And you're more than welcome to contact me if you want to try it out at my place.

Kind regards,

Thomas