My bad, vane.

glaesemann wrote:Is there any discussion of a tankless direct connect only rotary vane and PID version of the Vibiemme junior? This would fit my feature wish list and counter space requirements to a tee.

There is a guy on ebay that installs PIDs on the jr, which is why I brought up the jr before, but I missed your requirement for a rotary pump. It is not a factory install, but he does offer his own warranty.

I have never seen any mention of a rotary jr.

Randy

I went for the Vibiemme Junior DB from Espresso Care. Apparently it's the last one in the country. I'll do the (ugly) DIY PID mod and live with the vibe pump. Wish I could have used the dedicated reverse osmosis line though.

Thank you all for your feedback. I pop up every few years to catch up on the latest developments and buy a new machine. Note to Vibiemme / 1st-Line / Espresso Care, I'm first in line if you decide to do a Junior DB with PID and replace the tank with a rotary pump.

- Tim

So you got the Jr., are doing a PID on your own, so all you need its the plumb in rotary option? Why not do it yourself. The pump and motor assembly can be remotely located in a cabinet, and an SSR a the pump to make things easier on the machine's switching it on.

To RO can be used by putting in a bypass to add some tap water back into the RO line to feed the pump or use a calcite cartridge.

glaesemann wrote:I pop up every few years to catch up on the latest developments and buy a new machine. Note to Vibiemme / 1st-Line / Espresso Care, I'm first in line if you decide to do a Junior DB with PID and replace the tank with a rotary pump.

- Tim

Note taken,
I will pass it on to VBM
BUT the footprint of a junior will not allow a rotary pump/motor
PS
Thanks for the order I should be able to test it tomorrow and get it out to you.

stefano65 wrote:BUT the footprint of a junior will not allow a rotary pump/motor

I was afraid of that. I had hopes that removing the tank would allow enough room. Not a big deal though.

stefano65 wrote:Thanks for the order I should be able to test it tomorrow and get it out to you.

That's great. I'm truly looking forward to the experience.

Randy G. wrote:RO can be used by putting in a bypass to add some tap water back into the RO line to feed the pump or use a calcite cartridge.

Sorry, I don't follow. Why would tap water need to be added to the feed? The 34 gallon RO tank with 24 gallons of water in it has a line pressure of 70 psi. If you drain 1.5 gallons it is still at 60 psi. Is this not enough to feed the rotary? Is the tap water needed to provide a constant pressure?

glaesemann wrote: Why would tap water need to be added to the feed? The 34 gallon RO tank with 24 gallons of water in it has a line pressure of 70 psi.

In machines with an auto water level sensor in the boiler, they depend on the conductivity of the water. Pure water (like the product of an RO unit) is non conductive. If you used that, the machine would never sense the water level in the boiler so the pump would run and run and run... etc. The boiler would overfill and the pressure relief valve would open spraying water all over inside the case.

.. and the espresso wouldn't taste as good... Especially standing in knee-deep water.

No, its because reverse osmosis water produces pretty bad tasting coffee.

Without getting into the possibly large debate about water and coffee.. The short of it, is that water needs to have minerals in it for the coffee to taste right. RO water doesn't provide this. It leaves you with a very flat tasting cup of "coffee".

Softened tap water, or a mix of regular tap water and RO water is the easiest way to get what you need. If you'd like to read further on the subject, there is MANY discussions on this site alone.

Edit-^yes, what Randy said too.

PH and minerals were addressed back when I had the RO installed to feed an original Isomac Tea. I don't service the RO so to be honest I'm not too smart about how it was done. When I look under the counter there are 6 stages with the last one being Calcite Acidic Water Neutralizer. So now I know.

When I have some time I'll look at the water threads. My interest I guess would be taste of Calcite vs tap water as an add in, but that's off topic here.

Thank you all for your feedback and input. I'll see you in a few years.

- Tim