Dear H-B,
Please help me with my decision. IF there is already thread on this THEN please link me that thread and I apologize for my sucky search skills.

I am looking for 2nd grinder but this time Titan level. Looking for consistency and to bring out more nuances in espresso than (if possible) my Mazzer Super Jolly.

Absolutely cost needs to be <$2k but hoping <$1500 as this appears to be MSRP cost of new Compak K10. I have been spoiled with Compak K10 on loan from Sherman from Chicago H-B Get Together IX (again a big shout out thanks to him!). I am tasting differences (and good ones) in Paradise Roasters Classico and S.O. Brazil with the K10 vs. the SJ. Also more consistency with the K10. I tend towards darker roasts (e.g. Paradise Roasters Havana & Nuevo & Classico; Counter Culture Coffee's Forza).

What Titan level grinder should I get and why in your opinion?

I really would prefer Titan that is semi-home useable (e.g. not Robur b.c. (to my understanding has lots ground retention and it is just too damn tall (ideally needs to be <18 inches tall). So far the Compak K10 fits the bill BUT wanted others opinion.


Background:
I currently own Mazzer Super Jolly w/ doser and regular burrs (for espresso) and doserless Rancilio Rocky that Boss uses for drip and french press. Espresso machine is Quickmill Alexia with Watlow PID. Baskets are Lamarzocco Strada (same as VST 17 grams) and Rancilio triple basket (former for lighter roast beans and latter for all else) . I drink exclusively espresso with preference above. I weigh all ground beans with 0.1 gram accurate scale (calibrated monthly). I weigh all shot as pulled too. I prefer ristrettos (volume 1 oz and brew ratios>70%). I buy only fresh roasted bean and freeze rest (at least -10F ) until consumed.

1. Macap MXK 63mm conical - 850-1,090 discontinued in US (find used ~700).
2. Macap M7K 68mm conical - 999 discontinued in US (find used).
3. Fiorenzato Doge Conico 71mm conical - 1,100 shipped
4. Compak K10- 68mm conical 1,500 shipped
5. Wega 6.8a (same as compak but can't be found anymore- will they crop up again?)
6. La Cimbali max junior- hybrid burrs 1,100 shipped (extremely ugly)
7. Mazzer Kony/Mazzer Robur/Mazzer Robur 3-phase/Elektra Nino (Too big and expensive)

This is my list I think the fiorenzato is at least the equivalent of the Compak, with very nice grind adjustment etc. The K10 is a safe bet because everyone has one and there aren't problems, but I've heard only good things about the doge. Personally, I'd go with the doge because of price.


Joke/side-note: You can always wait out for a versalab with 68mm conicals, toothed belt, and an extra bearing. Any day now I'm expecting someone to bring that to the market (terranova?). With a pharos-style top grind adjustment, it would drop the price 25% because of simplicity.

Bearing in mind that I now consider single dosing the only reasonable way to use these grinders at home, it would be either the K10 or Doge Conico if I were re-buying. The Robur is impractically huge, probably offers no major benefit over either grinder, and is significantly more expensive to boot. There is something to be said for the spring-tensioned burr carrier the Doge Conico uses vs. the K10's simple friction-locked thread system. On the other hand, the K10's discharge chute appears to be quite a bit easier to access with a brush, and it has no auto-grinding switch to defeat.

bostonbuzz wrote: La Cimbali max junior- hybrid burrs 1,100 shipped (extremely ugly)

If we're talking about the same grinder, which is (was) a set of Max burrs in a Junior body, the Max Junior Hybrid is also discontinued... at least for now.

If I understand the situation correctly La Cimbali made the Max Junior Hybrid to Chris Nachtrieb's specs and Chris Coffee sold and was the sole distributor of the grinder. Chris asked La Cimbali for some design changes which would make cleaning and maintenance easier, La Cimbali declined to make them, and that was that.

I can't find any NOS anywhere, but one never knows. You see them come up used now and then. I'm not a huge fan of used equipment, but the Junior Max Hybrids are a good bet because they're so frikkin' rugged. For instance, Roger (Chris's La Cimbali tech) told me they should go at least a couple of decades in ordinary home use before needing new burrs.

What Chris doesn't like in the current design:
1. You need a screwdriver to get the doser off. I don't see this as much of a problem but if I understood Chris correctly some users were losing screws down the throat of the grinder despite the fact that the screws are so long, the hopper holds them almost completely captive;
2. It's damn near impossible to get the doser off; and
3. The doser is designed with a little plastic tab which blocks the chute. If you're a compulsive chute cleaner (I'm not), you have to grind the tab off.

Other negatives:
1. The grinder does not have a timer. If dosing without weighing every shot is important to you, you'll have to add an outboard timer. I use a Gralab darkroom timer, which is great in every way but not cheap; and
2. The grinder popcorns like crazy; and
3. It's not the world's quietest grinder.

You should know:
1. Because the La Cimbali popcorns without a layer (at least) of beans in the hopper, it is best suited for someone who keeps beans in the hopper -- which not only disqualifies anyone who wants to single dose, but makes it a PITA for someone who frequently changes beans; and
2. You're stuck with the doser. If you can't live with a doser, don't get a Junior Max Hybrid.

On the other hand...
Great grinder. I haven't had the opportunity to make a meaningful comparison to a K10 Fresh, but was able to use the La Cim, a Robur-E and a K30 on the same day. Just in terms of "in the cup," I liked the Junior Max Hybrid more than the Mahlkonig, but less than the Mazzer because the Mazzer is a slightly better conical but the Mahlkonig -- as good as it is -- is a flat; thus its cup was less lively and nuanced. Of course, both the Mazzer and Mahlkonig were more convenient.

If I were buying a new grinder today, I'd go for a K-10 Fresh. But the La Cimbali fits me too well to trade. You already KNOW you like the K10, and don't seem unhappy with the idea of writing a check. The only real advantage the La Cimbali has over a K-10 is price. If money matters, it's certainly worth a try if you can find one cheap and in good shape.

Last:
I don't think they're ugly.

BDL

How is single dosing with the Doge Conico? The chute seems less accessible for brushing then the K10's in terms of width and brush angle, and there is a wider gap at the edges of the grind chamber sweepers.

Single dosing with the Doge Conico is no problem - The chute is a sligthly oval tube made of steel, and this makes it easy to get all the grinds out. I use a drain plunger (clean, of course...) to pump most of the retained grinds into the doser, and a small make-up brush to clean the chute. A fairly unusual combination of tools, but it works well. (My wife insists that I keep the drain plunger out of sight, though - go figure )

You might want to consider the HG-One too - It takes a little more effort to use, but with it's reasonable price and low grind retention, it's probably one of the most consumer-friendly Titan grinders ever made.

I just got an MXK off eBay, which I'm very happy with - other owners have mentioned that it's not particularly consistent when single dosing, but since I keep beans in the hopper, this isn't an issue for me.

boar_d_laze wrote:If we're talking about the same grinder, which is (was) a set of Max burrs in a Junior body, the Max Junior Hybrid is also discontinued... at least for now.

If I understand the situation correctly La Cimbali made the Max Junior Hybrid to Chris Nachtrieb's specs and Chris Coffee sold and was the sole distributor of the grinder. Chris asked La Cimbali for some design changes which would make cleaning and maintenance easier, La Cimbali declined to make them, and that was that.

http://www.espressoparts.com/DRM_CONIC68 is a great, nearly identical, grinder: similar body, etc. I own it and love it. Basically matches everything you say below In a recent thread, I mention some of the changes I've made to adjust to the drawbacks. (Along those lines, I built a grinder timer in lieu of the dark room timer, but I may move it internally sometime this year).

I highly recommend this titan (from personal experience) unless you want to sweep the chutes all the time. They are accessible with some reversible changes, but the grinder output is much better imo when it has its own back-pressure, etc (doesn't spray, no clump, no WDT, can bypass the doser).

Michael,

No has mentioned the HG-one, but they are now shipping. Mine is in the hands of UPS and will arrive early next week. It uses the Mazzer 83mm burr set like the Robur, but is a hand power and only single dosing. You are more than welcome to compe over and try mine next week if you like. Our equipment is very similar so it would be a fair comparison.