This is my first post here. What an education from reading some of the advice.

My current equipment is a deLonghi Retro machine and a Baratza Virtuoso grinder. From what I've learned, the espresso machine factors less than a grinder in determining the quality of the brew. Three of us adults at home drink about 10 cups of cappuccino daily. Armed with this new knowledge, it seems I can make life simpler by buying a modestly automated machine (no built-in grinder) and simply keeping my Virtuoso.

So, I have two questions: a) the Virtuoso stopped dead on me. After less than 10 lbs of coffee. I've removed the burrs etc several times when it was simply clogged. But now, the motor won't start up. The nice folks at Baratza told me that they could walk me through on the phone how to more thoroughly clean electrical contacts. Dirty contacts are the probable cause, they say. Has anyone with a Baratza had the machine stop dead and then cleaned it?

b) What are the top brand favorites for 'push button' Espresso Machines. ie, no grinder? Ease of cleaning, self dosing are desirable.

Sorry, if you want a push button type super-automatic, you've come to the wrong place.

If you want a semi-automatic, then read How to choose an espresso machine and grinder at the "right" price, peruse the previous discussions in this forum (e.g., search on espresso machine budget), and reply once you have a better idea of what you're interested in. If you prefer a short introduction, read my recent article Fuel Rockets in WIRED magazine. For a more comprehensive read, see Mark's How to buy an espresso machine.

A Baratza Virtuoso on its best day isn't up to good espresso use. While they can grind fine enough for an "espresso grind," they don't have the fine control down in that range to allow for the necessary tweaking to get a good cup. A Baratza Preciso is barely entry-level, and barely adequate for an entry level espresso machine.

The real answer to your question starts with a paradigm shift, best expressed in two other questions:

• How much time and trouble are you willing to expend chasing really good coffee? And
• How much can you possibly afford, with a lot of kicking, screaming, and a wide allowance for a guilty conscious, to spend?

The already recommended FAQ is a good place to start.

With a little bit of luck you can draw a very good to excellent shot using entry and mid level equipment. However, the more you spend on a grinder and espresso machine the less luck dependent you become; the more consistent you become; and the higher your limits on absolute quality. So, that's where the money goes -- control, consistency and excellence.

At the risk of jumping too far ahead, if and when you consider a new espresso machine don't buy a Silvia. A lot of people got their start with Silvias, a lot of people use and adore them; but it's an idea whose time has passed. Don't waste your time on a Silvia or any other "single boiler dual use" (SBDU) machine unless you NEVER make milk drinks, and are willing to pay extra for a PID.

No super automatics (i.e. machines which include a grinder which automatically dispenses into the pf, if for no other reason than the grind path gets humid, clogged, filthy and rancid. Yum. Actually, I was "of counsel to Filthy & Rancid but that's another story.

Also, the conventional wisdom that the grinder is more important than the machine isn't quite right. Both have to be of an adequate level and should be appropriate to one another. It's true that more people underestimate the importance and cost of an appropriate grinder than underestimate the cost of a desirable appropriate machine, but that's a different matter -- and more sticker shock than anything else. A fellow gets the idea that a $1200 machine will make every morning paradise, but is dismayed to find that heaven's cover charge requires another $500 for the grinder.

You'll probably spend something greater than 1/3 the cost of the machine for the grinder; but there are no hard and fast rules or percentages. Everything is very contingent on everything else.

If you want really good coffee, get used to the concept that it's going to take some effort and beaucoup bucks.

Good luck,
BDL

Well, I am always ready for a 'paradigm shift'. Being born when FDR was president, I've learned that the worst disease of aging is the dreaded "hardening of the categories". Funny, but true.

One of the things I'm will to absorb is the cost. Cycling was and is a passion. So my bicycle was custom built in Europe. And due to my wife, my suits are mostly made by tailors. Looking at those prices on paper can be a shock. But, what is the value of a thing? That takes decades to learn. That's why I'm asking you kind folks.

The Virtuoso can easily be sold on eBay. Once that is done, can I buy a grinder in the $300 range. Again, for home use. And how difficult does auto dosing become?

My limited experience with grinding is that a lot of fresh coffee got spilled and wasted. So I thought dosing would minimize handling of the grounds and save wastage.

Perhaps you could suggest the espresso machine that also offers dosing as a feature. But not grinding.

Cleaned a motor. . .like pulling an armature from a wound coil. Nope, but do know those whom have removed these newer "beer-can" auto starters, which apparently can be rebuilt over a $300-500 replacement job. Also was in a similar situation with one of the first sub-$600 TTL monitors, an early 32" Syntax, that went out just shy of the warrantee. Tech determined I was a suitable candidate for laying it out face down on a blanket in my living room for replacing control board modules they would send me, at least until someone in another dept. caught wind and shipped me a totally free and redesigned replacement. Looking at you now on it.

For under $5000 no doubt there would be many top favorite extraction devices, along with grinder, for fitting on a stainless plate with wheels. It'd take a TIG for the stainless and probably a call to a plumber for water supply fittings, but would be effectively miles ahead for sustainable regard from anything in the way of integrated offerings. At up to 500lbs. a large and sturdy kitchen countertop is going to be a definite plus.

Unlike my $600 new La Pavoni Pro, aka carefully hefting around the Scorching Peacock, which hisses and rarely bites me on occasion, or $500 for a Behmor roaster, home burner and wrecker of pungent smells if not also watched, somehow so ideally replete wistfully to consider under a preexisting rangehood;- that Asasci I/2 grinder just mostly sitting off to the side and hardly makes more noise than when I skin my knuckles at its hopper a couple inches just below an overhanging cupboard. . . .all so typical for modest setups certainly capable of being viable for one or two over ten cups a day. Yes, those were the days. Only now I'm down to two or three, thankfully in large, no worse for the equipment I've borne and carried over five long years' wear and tear.

Spilling coffee is part of it. Wasted coffee grounds which help you make better coffee aren't wasted. They're sacrificed. Let us honor them.

I'm not an authority on equipment of any sort, especially the bottom end. I'm not recommending it, "just sayin' is all."

Weight is the only truly accurate and meaningful determination of dose. Grinders typically don't actually dose by weight, but use a timer which stands as an approximate metaphor for weight.

For almost all purposes, a timer is close enough -- as long as you keep a scale around to check for consistency every so often and to recalibrate for any changes. In my opinion, it's a good idea not to make a fetish out of accurate dose weights. For normal "double" dosing, real differences in the cup seem to manifest every couple of grams or so, and 0.5g is close enough for consistency. In short, 18-20g and 20-22g range doses are very different from one another; while 18.5g and 19g doses are so similar, it's difficult to taste the difference. But opinions differ on the importance of accurate weights.

Baratza makes dosing by weight at the grinder an option available on a few models -- including the Baratza Vario. I don't know how good or actually helpful that is. When I weigh, I use a 2kg scale with a resolution of 0.1g. Cost, including calibration weights, less than $30.

On the other hand, my $800 grinder isn't built with a timer so I added a Gralab 451 darkroom timer, for around $200.

The degree to which you can tweak the grinder in order to control the size of the grind is EXTREMELY important. There are a few other things just as important in the equipment chain, and to do them all very well takes throwing some money at it; as well as developing palate and technique.

Given what you've said about yourself, I get the feeling you're not going to be happy at the ground or second floor for very long after your taste develops, and that you'll be upgrading to high-end "prosumer," or [gulp] residential friendly but true "pro" equipment in short order.

BDL

I did a quick search for espresso cafes in Santa Monica and came up with the following that were highly recommended by HB members:

Caffe Luxxe in Santa Monica, Espresso Cielo in Santa Monica and Intelligentsia in Venice.

So what I'd suggest is that all of you take a short road trip to visit those cafes, in order to evaluate their cappuccino offerings in relationship to what you've been producing, which should make for a couple of very enjoyable visits. If you really like what they made for you by all means chat up the barista's and the owner(s) about how you might go about making your own, that might come darn close to their offerings; or most likely beating them. While I'm not absolutely certain that their cappuccino will beat the pants off of yours, I'm fairly certain that they will. BTW, even a professional barista can pull a bad shot, so don't judge everything on one capa.

Now comes the somewhat tricky part. In order to produce great cappuccino it's a tremendous help if you have the right gear and that can set you back anywhere from slightly over $2,000 to YIKES. However, the good news is that those espresso machines and grinders will last you forever, provided you take care of them. FYI, once you learn how to pull a good shot you'll wonder why you didn't do this from the get go?

"Three of us adults at home drink about 10 cups of cappuccino daily." You all wouldn't be addicted to caffeine, would you?

FYI, I was born while Truman was President

Thanks, Dodger 1. Will follow up on sampling local coffee houses of repute. I'd come to almost the same conclusion because my drinking experience is somewhat confined. Though in years past I tasted the best in France and in Japan. And for 10 years around my house our coffee of choice has been Peet's Arabian Mocha Java. We hit on that after seeing an interview with the Chef for the Lance Armstrong Team at the Tour de France. He had high praise for Peet's and said he was asked by Lance to supply it, no matter where in the world the team travelled.

Yesterday, one of the HB posters sent me a PM and we spoke on the phone. He lives locally, and his "nom-de-plume" is boar_d_laze. We talked for 30 minutes and I'm going to drive to his place to see equipment, taste coffee.

Based on that conversation, I see that I need to do some reading, go to coffee houses, and perhaps rob a 7-ll to finance new equipment.

Gary,

Sorry to jump in late. You've received some good advice so far. A couple of things you may wish to keep in mind . . .

Standard Questions:
1) What kind of drinks do you like/want to make? (This will tell us what you need in terms of a machine's capabilities.)
2) How many drinks, on average, do you see yourself needing to make at ay one time? (This will tell us what you need in terms of a machine's ability to work continuously.)
3) How many drinks, on average, do you see yourself making in any given week? (This will tell us what you need in terms of a machine's durability.)
4) Can you plumb a machine directly into the water supply, or do you want/need a pourover machine with its own reservoir?
5) Do you have a 20-amp circuit available, or only a (standard) 15-amp circuit?
6) What is your budget for a new machine? Does that also include a grinder? If not, what is your budget for a grinder?

There is no point in, for example, recommending a $5,000 machine if your budget is $500. Then again, there is also no point -- even if your budget is $5K -- or recommending a machine that expensive if one that's $1500 suits your needs . . .

There are lots of options out there. Be sure to enjoy the journey . . .

Cheers,
Jason