I was on a website here in the UK. The site sells a wide variety of machines, both domestic and commercial. It's an authorized dealer for Elektra and sells quite a few Elektra grinders. That got me thinking. Obviously it makes sense from the manufacturers POV to increase revenue from machine sales. In theory at least Elektra's grinders should be perfect for Elektra coffee machines, so it's good for the customer too.

So I was wondering if anyone has obtained their grinder and machine from the same manufacturer. Or maybe switched from a big brand grinder to the manufacturer's own label as it were. And if so was there any noticeable difference. I'm thinking that there could be, but who knows. Or do coffee machine makers just buy from the big grinder names and badge them themselves?

First, I agree with Jim that there is no real reason to buy a grinder with the same brand as one's espresso machine other than maybe getting a better deal on the combination if purchased at the same time. Or, even less importantly, if the grinder design matches the espresso machine and you are looking for a designer type kitchen.

I disagree that Cimbali does not make grinders. Although no one has ever explained to me exactly how and when Cimbali acquired DRM, Cimbali has made grinders that physically match the appearance of their espresso machines for at least 20 years. I am aware of no one else who sells those same grinders under another brand name, with the possible exception of Faema. Cimbali has owned Faema for a long time now, and there (at least used to be) a twin or near twin of the Cimbali Junior espresso machine that had Faema branding on it. Perhaps they also rebranded a Junior type grinder to go with it under the Faema name. But that would be the same thing as General Motors producing a nearly identical Chevy and Buick, something the major auto companies have done for decades.

Companies make acquisitions all the time. Once an acquisition is made and combined with the acquiring company, it becomes PART of the company.

I also have never heard of Cimbali or DRM (in recent times) making grinders for any other company except maybe Faema, as above. As far as I know, DRM does not exist any longer as a freestanding company, and other than for some old plastic molds that still say DRM on them, for the grinder hopper tops and bottom plastic trays, Cimbali grinders don't have any mention of DRM on them any longer. If there is any evidence of either Cimbali or DRM making grinders for other companies that Cimbali does not own, please enlighten us as to which ones.

ken

Thanks for the replies guys.

another_jim wrote:No factory that makes espresso machines makes grinders, and as far as I know, no engineering department designs both machines and grinders in conjunction.

I think closely related to this idea are the espresso machines with a grinder built in. I've seen pictures of some by Expobar. Maybe this has it's origins in a joint venture with a grinder manufacturer. Or maybe grinder components can be sourced without infringing any design rights or patents?

another_jim wrote:Ken, DRM sells their grinders under their own badge, like all grinder manufacturers. But you're right that I have no clue who, other than Cimbali, might be buying them.

Ian, for superautos and combination machines, the machine manufacturer buys the complete innards for the grinder from the grinder manufacturer.

I have inquired of various Cimbali importers and other cognescenti for around 15 years concerning the relationship between Cimbali and DRM, and never been given a comprehensible answer. The closest to comprehensible I have received is that due to various tax and labor laws in Italy it has been to the benefit of Cimbali to act as though DRM is not exactly a part of Cimbali even if it functions as if it were. This would not be unlike what I have read about Birkenstock, the sandal maker in Germany which is supposedly a whole bunch of separate companies each employing less than 20 people so as to fall into some preferential work rule/labor situation which would otherwise not be possible for a larger company with more employees. European socialism is like that; since any company with half a brain will attempt to get the best deal it can for itself, one ends up with all sorts of business distortions.

What is true is that one does not find "DRM" grinders for sale in the world with the possible exception of Italy. They say as much on their website:

The company DRM Elettronica directly markets its coffee grinders and all spare parts. Furthermore, it manufactures its items for an important Italian Group that exports DRM doser grinders all over the world.

Of course, that group is Cimbali. Most likely that website and any other direct promotional items that are produced at the behest of "DRM" are simply intended to promote the fiction that DRM is really a company separate from Cimbali. Why else would a company's entire output of products be physically matched in form and shape to the espresso machines made by only one (ostensibly different) company, Cimbali?

And the range of grinders that Cimbali sells directly, that presumably are either from DRM or other companies Cimbali owns, is much larger than what is shown on that DRM website as basically 3 models that all resemble nearly exactly Cimbali equivalents.

ken

As Jim and Ken say you may like to having matching looks and may get a better price, but the machine has no idea of the badge on the grinder.

When it comes specifically to Elektra, it depends on the grind: their different models are actually made by different companies or so I have been informed directly by Elektra. On the "commercial" side this also includes rebadged Macap grinders. The top-of-the-range Nino is I am told made/assembled in house.

In short: everything else being equal: grind quality, your preferred grinder design (type of burrs, with doser/doserless, with/without timer etc.) and price, then having a matching set could be a nice cherry on the cake. But it will never be the cake itself.....

Cheers

Mike

Ken Fox wrote:I disagree that Cimbali does not make grinders. Although no one has ever explained to me exactly how and when Cimbali acquired DRM, Cimbali has made grinders that physically match the appearance of their espresso machines for at least 20 years. I am aware of no one else who sells those same grinders under another brand name, with the possible exception of Faema. Cimbali has owned Faema for a long time now, and there (at least used to be) a twin or near twin of the Cimbali Junior espresso machine that had Faema branding on it. Perhaps they also rebranded a Junior type grinder to go with it under the Faema name. But that would be the same thing as General Motors producing a nearly identical Chevy and Buick, something the major auto companies have done for decades.

As far as I understand, Cimbali bought a sizeable grinder operation with Faema. The Faema MC99 is the same as the Cimbali Conik, which are just cosmetic variations on the Faema MC450, which is from at least 1962.
There's the Futurmat FP and FM grinders that are a Faema design too.
Either way, Cimbali also bought Casadio a while ago.

Ian_G wrote:I think closely related to this idea are the espresso machines with a grinder built in. I've seen pictures of some by Expobar. Maybe this has it's origins in a joint venture with a grinder manufacturer. Or maybe grinder components can be sourced without infringing any design rights or patents?

another_jim wrote:Ian, for superautos and combination machines, the machine manufacturer buys the complete innards for the grinder from the grinder manufacturer.

yup, in the case of Expobar combination machines the grinder manufacturer is Cunill....

another_jim wrote:-- Elektra's grinders are made by Eureka, ....

This is good to know, because I've just shelled out for the Elektra Microcasa Semiautomatica and I already have a Eureka Mignon grinder. Can't wait.