I have an older 1-group Epoca. I wouldn't call it ugly, but it isn't a shiny metal box and is instead made from an anodized tubular metal frame with curved plastic panels forming the outside surfaces. It is bombproof and doesn't rust.

Mine was used from ebay. I think it had been packed by a small child, who just had some random bits of cardboard and some sticky tape. It had been dropped on the way, and the seller didn't drain the 4L boiler before shipping, so the frame was bent and the panels didn't fit very well. All I needed to do was reglue one stud onto one of the side panel and plug it in. No damage to the guts of the machine at all; it just worked.

orphanespresso has got a really nice one for sale.

It ticks all the boxes
-commercial
-bulletproof (it's still working and is 50< years old)
-used
-1 group
-fully restored by people who like working on such machines.

Although it is plumbed in, the machine is so beautiful that your friend would be easily swayed.

Oh, that really is beautiful.

Thanks for all the helpful posts and PMs, and please keep them coming!

My friend wants a quiet machine (he's been coveting a rotary ever since he first heard my rotary Cimbali in operation) so I don't think he would buy a vibe pump driven machine, all other things being equal. And, even if you could convince him to try out a lever, that would be out of the question for his wife.

I think he would prefer a relatively new machine that would look good in a modern kitchen, and the less hacking done to it, the better (which makes my own Cimbali rotary a less than perfect choice, as it reposes down in the basement).

ken

I have a Cimbali M21 Automatic that is a few years old. Was used in a restaurant here that maybe served 10 espresso's a week. He has decided to get rid of it for $2750.

Would you really rather have some used machine than a vivaldi S1 v2 that is new?

Ken Fox wrote:I think he would prefer a relatively new machine that would look good in a modern kitchen

Since you asked for input

They do have commercial ratings although anyone would reasonably think that they are better for light commercial duty.

It does have a rotary pump.

They have a forum - actually a big deal, IMHO.

Why would someone want to have a HX with a 5 or 6 liter boiler? - unless they are pumping out the shots all day long.

Granted - the appearance of the Vivaldi doesn't suit everyone. If so, there are other double boilers in the same price range.

I know, not what you asked. But since I found your "unconventional" recommendation for lower dosing to be quite useful - perhaps you might find my suggestion for a different path to take useful.

I agree that a new S1VII would fit your buddys requirements nicely, if not a little differently.

The VII has MASSIVE steam power... Id bet it be just slightly less then the Elektra's 6L HX boiler. Since the VII boiler is dedicated 2.2L gives it wonderfully dry, lasting power.

One Feature I really like that is probably overlooked by some, is an easily accessible drain for the steam boiler. Slip and open-ended wrench, adjustable wrench or pliers around it, turn it, and the boiler drains.

Runs on 15amp quite nicely for a home environment.. Im running on 15amp currently, and though I am going to be running on 20amp when I move, I haven't yet found myself saying that I wished it was on 20amp already. And the config. is nice.. Every machine is 20amp, and if you want it to run on 15a, you flip a switch on the inside, and buy the adaptor cord if the outlet wont take a 20amp plug... This way, if/when you want to run on 20amp, you just flip the switch back.. no need to worry about buying the properly configured machine from the get go.

Now, for completeness sake.. Im Biased. I own the La Spaz S1VII, and absolutely love it. Its a wonderful machine to use as long as massively updosed, uber-ristretto's are not your bread&butter.(I know they're not yours, Ken!), but doubles in the 13-17gram range do lovely, and single shots too. 16grams or so for the blends like BlackCat, or Toscano.. 14-15grams for single origins like the Amaro Gayo. The programmable Preinfusion is quite useful, and a lot of fun to play around with. Plus, no other machine in this class has that option.

In MY opinion, thats how I'd go. Well.. Thats how I went!

Hi Everyone and thanks for continued posts on this thread!

My friends sent their Andreja back to the servicer in Boise and since I was there today I dropped by to see it in operation. They have fixed the leaks and part of the problems my friends have had most recently may have been related to the electrical wiring (e.g. the GFCI) that they have been using in their own home. I put the machine in the car and have now transferred it over to my friends to try using again. So far, so good, according to a call I just received from them.

If the machine is fixed for good and works well they are going to hold off on buying a commercial machine for now, since their ultimate goal is to build a new house on a lot they own, assuming they can sell their present house first. In that situation then they can design a real espresso bar and they can put any machine they want, plumbed in, into that space.

Failing that, the easiest solution for them in their current kitchen is going to be to drill a hole in the back of the stainless steel sink in the kitchen, next to where the espresso machine is located, which will allow them to install a plumbed in machine. They'd prefer to avoid doing this for now since what they really want to do is to sell their current house and build a new one.

I'll post further on this thread if there are any other developments that would cause them to renew their search for a used 1 group commercial machine in good condition.

ken