hmmm
Can't find much info on the Ponte you mentioned.

Please post if you have any links!

Let the search engine on this website be your friend:

http://www.home-barista.com/ponte-vecch ... eview.html

And, if you're making straight espresso, the Quickmill Alexia is worth a look if not more:

http://www.home-barista.com/quickmill-a ... eview.html

sweaner wrote:I am curious why you narrowed it down to two very different machines?

My question exactly, Scott . . .

dorman1979 wrote:That's just it. I feel I have narrowed it down to the best for my price range in each category (semi auto vs lever). Being that I'm new to owning a machine for the home I was confused on which of the very different approaches to take.

These are -- well, they aren't the last two machines I'd pick, but they're kind of close to it. (YMMV.)

Kevin, if you used a 2-group Wega in New Zealand, I would think that you would be VERY frustrated with a level machine like a Pavoni. At the least, you need an HX machine: if you get an single boiler-dual use (SBDU) machine, you'll be looking at frustratingly long delays as the machine adjusts (up or down) from brew to steam temperature and back again. And if your Pavoni runs low on water, you're screwed: you cannot open the machine to add more water to the boiler until it cools down or, at the very least, bleed off all the pressure.

As far as the Expobar Office is concerned . . . there have been some questions/problems with the build quality of various Expobar machines (not the Brewtus line) -- enough that I'd be cautious.

Were I in your shoes, I'd take a serious look at the Fiorenzato Bricoletta pourover machine (on sale for $999), leaving you with more money for the grinder! The one drawback is that it requires a 20A circuit. Every house has 20A available, but you may need to install a new outlet. If that's not possible, for one reason or another, you still have other options: the Salvatore One Black ($1100), the Nuova Simonelli Oscar ($1050), or the Bezzera BZ02 ($1049) -- to name but three . . .

If you really want a lever machine, I'd definitely take a serious look at the Ponte Vecchio Lusso 1-group ($969-$1069, depending upon finish), or even the Ponte Vecchio Lusso TWO-group ($1220-$1329, again depending upon the finish).

And, just to reiterate: spend as much as you can on the grinder!

Cheers,
Jason

dorman1979 wrote:Thanks for the reply!
What is the cool down time on the Pavoni after a few shots, to be able to pull another?

How long can I expect these machines to take warming up before pulling a shot?

15 minutes warmup give or take.

Levers like the Pavoni or Cremina don't cool down on their own in a time that would be considered reasonable by someone trying to entertain guests. Once the group has become so hot that it ceases to sink enough heat away from the overheated brew water, any loss of heat from the group to the ambient air is offset by gains in heat conducted to the group from the boiler. So, after the second or third espresso, you must actively cool the group with a cool damp dish towel. But then you don't really know how cool you've made it, unless you develop a feel, literally, for the machine.

With the exception of the Ponte Vecchio Lusso and the Gaggia Achille*, domestic-class lever-machines capable of producing steam and currently available factory-new are not built to meet the concurrent demands of small groups of people. They are suitable for an individual or a twosome; if pushed (i.e. actively cooled by wet cloth and/or turned off during the extraction) they might do for four if the last person to get a cup is not very demanding and happy with a milk drink.

*And the Achille appears to have been discontinued.

I've disagreed with Timo in the past about how impossible it is or isn't to deal with the overheating of a Pavoni and how easy it is to develop a feel for it (which can now be helped by the little Espressme temp strips sold by Orphan Espresso).

So he'll be disgusted to see me now totally agreeing with him

If you are thinking of pulling 7 shots almost back to back on a Pavoni in your hour and therefore thinking about emptying the machine to cool it right down and then start up again, I'd honestly say forget it: this machine is not for you. You will grow to hate it with a passion. Even the Elektra Microcasa a Leva, which behaves somewhat better in this respect (especially when the pressurestat is set lower than it tends to be from the factory), will still be a complete pain if you are thinking of pulling a series of 7 shots every hour or so.

If you want to do that with a lever, consider the Pontevecchio Lusso - again as Timo recommends. If you see a Gaggia Achille, however, I'd say resist the temptation: it has too many achilles' heels in terms of build quality.

Otherwise, if you want a classic-looking machine that will cope with the the sorts of demands you've outlined, why not consider the Elektra Semiautomatica? Apart from anything else it's a lot better made than the Pavoni.

Fiorenzato Bricoletta pourover
Wow how did I miss this one! Just read up on it over at CG. Looks like this is the right choice!
I think I have decided to go with a Semi like this one and wait for a cheaper used lever to tinker with later down the road!
Thanks for all the help guys!
Heres the kit!
Grinder: Cunill Tranquilo
Machine: Fiorenzato Bricoletta

Just found a nuova oscar for 775 new.
I did some research on the Fiorenzato Bricoletta. The extra wiring is not looking promising for me

What would you guys do???
Expobar office lever for 1250
or
Gaggia classic for 250

If it were me, I'd get the Gaggia Classic, and put the extra $1000 into saving for a machine that's better than the Expobar . . .

Grinder? Grinder? Are you getting the Cunill Tranquilo? If not, grab the Baratza Vario . . .

Cheers,
Jason

I would get that Oscar, or add the 20 amp wiring and get the Bric.