Thios is post to educate about the new T1 machine because it is no longer the old style.

boar_d_laze wrote:There's a lot of enthusiasm for the Elektra partly based on the "such a deal" factor. I suggest ignoring how much the Elektra used to cost as a factor. Whatever it used to cost, the T1 is now a $3000 machine. Thinking of the new price not as an outlay but as a $2000 saving is Lucy Goes to Mexico thinking.

We sincerely disagree with this statement. Please note that we negotiated better pricing from Elektra to achieve the current special. This price is subject to increase as we 'may' not receive this special pricing again.

boar_d_laze wrote:]For most practical purposes the T1 and Casa are fungible. Both are "volumetric" automatics. With the right baskets in their stock pfs, an excellent grinder, great beans, and good barista skills, either will get the most out of a dose that can be had.

The relative benefits of the Elektra compared to the La Cimbali Casa are the Elektra's ability to handle larger cups and provide catering quantities of steam. In terms of making coffee and producing steam in large (but ordinary) amounts, the machines are equals.

Although we somewhat agree, the Elektra T1 has a new feature which gives it an advantage: The new T1 no longer has a pressurestat the control the steam pressure in the boiler (which is directly propostional to the boiler temperature). It now uses a probe inthe boiler with an electronic control box to regulate this temperature like a PID (less no display, but the pressure gauge for the boielr is used). The main reason why the A3 went away was that the touchpad on the T1 is used to program the electronic control box. The A3 could not have this functionality. It also has the functionality to shut the power off the heating element when the boiler does not have enough water. There are other features, as well, of which I will know more when they arrive.

boar_d_laze wrote:]However, assuming good skills and focus, the "quality in the cup" DB competitor to the T1 and Casa (and NS Appia for that matter), is probably the La Marzocco GS3. Great machine if you can afford it.

The new T1 will give the LM machine a run for its money now.

Jim, or anyone else, am I correct in assuming that the biggest advantage of the probe over a pressurestat is that it will not be fooled by false pressure (ie under normal conditions temp can be measured via pressure, but false pressure fools a machine into thinking the temp is different than it really is, but it would not fool the probe)?

Hugh,

I don't think the advantage is not being fooled by false pressure, since it's easily remedied with a vacuum breaker. The probe should do away with the arcing that takes place each time a pressurestat signals the heating element. If I read Jim's post correctly, the probe tells the control box to turn on the heating element, which is similar to how a Cimbali Junior works, only it still uses a pressurestat, albeit a micro pressurestat. In other words, the Cimbali still controls boiler temperature using pressure, whereas the new Elektra will use the probe as a temp sensor and will act independently of pressure. When the temp drops below the threshold, it signals the control box to activate the heating element.

Jim,

If I'm mistaken, I apologize.

1st Line,

With affection and good humor:

Not to quibble but you chose to disagree with a tautology.

No matter what price you negotiated, you're selling the T1 for $3,000. It may be a high value $3,000 machine but it's $3,000. If someone buys it from you, it costs $3,000, and doesn't save $2,000; they spend $3000 but don't get $2,000. If that doesn't make it a $3,000 machine, what does? If I buy a T1 from you, my credit card will be billed $3000, and not credited $2,000. If I'm mistaken in that, please advise so that I may supply with you my Visa account number. As we roll into the gift giving season, the couple of K will come in handy.

Your T1 may be equal or even superior to a previous model which sold for $5000, and may be identical to other T1s sold by other vendors for $5,000 -- but the machines you're selling for $3,000 are $3,000 machines, because you've defined them as such by... wait for it... charging $3,000.

In the I Love Lucy episode, "Lucy Goes To Mexico," Ricky and Fred give Lucy and Ethel $20 each to spend in Tijuana. The girls argue that they should get $100 because for every dollar they'd spend in Mexico, they'd save two, and thus the couples would end up $100 to the good. It didn't work on the boys, and it doesn't work on me either.

Some things are so simple they may appear confusing or surreal. But I assure you: (1) I'm as dumb as I seem; and (B) your T1 is a $3000 machine.

Regarding a different comment: In my opinion, based on relatively long experience with a La Cimbali Casa and (far less) peripatetic experience with a 2006, Elektra Sixties A1, both the Casa and T1 give the GS3 a run for the money. All three of those machines make coffee at the highest possible level, with none exceeding the other in that respect. If you read me as saying the GS3 was better, you read me wrong.

Finally, I neither had nor have anything bad to say about the T1. It's a true bargain at its price.

BDL

With regards the Elektra A1 lets not forget that before the giant price increase a few years ago ( soon after the initial GS3 release) - they were usually listed at under 3k. Cimbali tried the price increase on the Junior soon after and wisely backed off.
All the spoken about machines are capable of making great coffee, some of the things to seriously consider are longevity, cost / ease of maintenance,local support and service - a really good service supplier 2000 miles from where you live is a long ways away. I have been running a La Cimbali JR for 6 years now - it runs 24/7 and my only expense so far has been a yearly change of gaskets at $8 a pop, I don't think that can be said for the GS3. If you're in the Seattle area there are a few good local suppliers and the headquarters / landing zone for La Marzocco.
2 bits

I think the real question in terms of "such a deal" is neither what it used to cost nor what it will cost in the future, but is it an amazing machine compared to machines in its current price class and I think that is what most people are reacting to when they say it is such a deal. I don't know if it is the best machine under 3k right now or not, but many would argue it is. I was not willing to spend over 4k on a machine so for me it didn't register as a good or bad deal at the higher price, just one I wasn't going to consider, but I have thought about stretching my budget to 3k. If I did that I think the T1 would be my choice although there would be some other serious contenders in that price range.

I also think that if the vendor says the price is likely to go up and it used to be higher it is pretty safe to consider the current price a sale price although being on sale isn't as good a reason to buy it as the simple fact that it is an amazing machine at an amazing price.

Jumping in late . . .

All I can say is that I love my Elektra T1 -- regardless of any changes between my model (with the 7-button panel and a pressurestat) and the "new" model (5-button panel, probe-in-boiler) -- and have yet to experience any desire to upgrade in the four years I've had the machine. (Yeah, I know, it's only been four years; but while I still have my "dream machine", it's only a dream.)

As for the DB v. HX debate, I think it's more a matter of "anything you can do, I can do better too!" Each machine has its advantages and its disadvantages, and it all boils down to YOU, and what -- ultimately -- you what to do with/get from your machine.

Cheers,
Jason