Bezzera BZ10 or E61 for cappuccino drinker

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
iCarumba
Posts: 29
Joined: 8 years ago

#1: Post by iCarumba »

Hi

I am looking for an upgrade from my silvia. I am currently drink mostly cappuccino 30/70 percent milk ratio. However i'm trying to get used to straight espresso taste. Since i am planning to get the new machine soon, i want the machine to be capable of making nice cappuccino but also can make decent straight espresso taste.

I need advice to choose between BZ10 or Bezzera mitica.

my current grinder is OE Pharos.

iCarumba (original poster)
Posts: 29
Joined: 8 years ago

#2: Post by iCarumba (original poster) »

Please excuse my bad english

Sorry if the question seems repetitive. I've read many reviews on the BZ10 and E61 groups. I have read that the bezzera grouphead will produce more clarity in exchange for texture/body. In contrast, the E61 group will have more body (i don't know how much more compared to the bezzera) but slightly less clarity.

The problem is I'm not experienced enough with straight espresso. If i can recognized shots with high clarity or heavy body then maybe I can decide for myself which one I like more for milk drinks. As for my taste preference, i like my cappuccino to be slightly heavy, chocolaty, nutty with slight fruit and acidity.

I hope that with the new machine I can also start appreciating straight espresso. Right now I can only perceive mostly sourness and very very slight chocolate and fruits only if i force myself really hard to find it.

Nick Name
Posts: 680
Joined: 9 years ago

#3: Post by Nick Name »

First of all, I have zero experience with either machine.

But I'm sure you'd do fine with either one of them. Bezzera is known to make great machines and you'll find people who are very happy with Mitica or with BZ10. Personally I would go with Mitica, due to better specs and E61 which is known to be quite forgiving group design (not saying that Bezzera group isn't - I just don't know it). I also think Mitica looks better. An espresso machine is quite a large piece of equipment, so you will be looking at it a lot.

An espresso machine in this category is more of a fine tuning instrument. The beans influence a lot more to the taste than the machine. Even your grinder comes before the machine (Pharos is a great grinder, btw).

Just pick which one you like more (the price, specs, looks etc..).
Basically I think what people mostly look for in cappuccino in this context is body of the coffee. Fruity tones easily tend to get overshadowed by milk, but of course you can make excellent cappuccinos also from fruity/berry African beans etc. It's really a matter of taste. And taste is personal.

Henrik
Posts: 3
Joined: 8 years ago

#4: Post by Henrik »

When buying a new espresso machine I had the BZ10 and the Bezzera Magica (E61) on my short list too. Next to the group head, you can consider other features as well:
> Size of the water tank: The Magica/Mitica has a 4 liter tank, nice volume; so you do not have to refill that often. (Especially with a HX, you are using more water for cooling flushes). Accessibility of the watertank on the Magica (you can easily remove the cup tray) is excellent too. Especially if you have less space left above the machine.
> Tray / Machine size: It is easier to work with a machine that's a bit wider, there is more space for the levers/group head, etc...
> Looks & build quality: the BZ10 is great, but the Magica/Mitica is even better. Build like a tank. Not only the retro E-61 group head/ tray, but it has a decent water tank as well. By the way, using the E-61 lever to trigger the brewing process is fun anyhow (instead of the button on the BZ10).
> Bezzera delivers on the E-61 machines 2 filter holders instead of one (one I use for brewing the other contains the blind filter; so 2 filter holders is a must have).

Downsides E61 Bezzera compared with BZ10
> What I understood from other posts is that the E61 version takes more time to heat up.
> What I experienced as a downside of the E61 is that I needed to descale the machine after 5 months of use (as thermo heating of the E61 was not working optimal anymore). (Although I was using a scale filter). I only needed to descale the brewing path, not the steam boiler (10 minutes of work). As the brew head of the BZ10 is heated electrically, this problem might occur less frequently. Think the E61 requires a bit more maintenance and technical knowledge from the home barista side. But personally I love that technical aspect of coffee making.

Love the Bezzera E-61's. Bella Machina!

Gig103
Posts: 315
Joined: 11 years ago

#5: Post by Gig103 »

I have no experience with the Bezzera group, but I will say that I love that E61s can easily be worked on. Instructions and parts (both repair and gaskets or wear items) are readily available online and cheap.

iCarumba (original poster)
Posts: 29
Joined: 8 years ago

#6: Post by iCarumba (original poster) »

Thanks for the input.

Between this two? which machine could come closer to cafe quality? 70% of coffee shops in my city own LM machines.
Surprisingly compared to 90% of them, I still prefer the capp I made with my silvia. I guess because I use slightly more dose. I usually use 28 gram of espresso in 170ml tulip cup.

User avatar
canuckcoffeeguy
Posts: 1286
Joined: 10 years ago

#7: Post by canuckcoffeeguy »

Hi [anonymized],

Bezzera's E61 machines and its proprietary bell group machines are both good. Although, I've only used the Magica (E61) which I currently own. The BZ machines have the Elektra/Bell group design. They heat up faster and people say they offer better shot clarity. While E61 machines are known to produce heavier bodied shots.

Also, the BZ machines reportedly have lower head clearance, meaning they don't like updosing. So you'll need triple baskets to pull shots greater than says 16g with the BZ machines. Whereas the routinely pull 18g or 19g shots on my Magica without difficulty in my 18g VST basket.

All E61 machines take longer to fully heat up. The boiler will heat up in about 8 minutes. But the thermosyphon loop won't get the grouphead to full temp (around 205F) until 45 minutes, sometimes an hour depending on ambient conditions.

However, the longer warm up can be negated by a timer. I have the WeMO Insight model. It's a digital timer connected to my WiFi network. And it can be controlled remotely via my smartphone. You can schedule different routines for different days. Pretty much customize it to any on/off schedule you want.
http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F7C029/

The Magica has a 2.0 copper boiler and steams like a beast! Ironically I don't make many milk drinks. But I didn't know when I bought it if I would or not. Turns out I drink straight espresso almost exclusively. I believe it has a larger steam boiler than the BZ machines.

The BZ machines have the electrically heated group and will heat up faster (but again, a timer makes this moot in my opinion). They also require less of a cooling flush, from what I've read, since they have the electrically heated group.

Bezzera's build quality and fit and finish is excellent and they use quality materials. I've compared many machines in person (mostly at idrinkcoffee's showroom), and Bezzera stands up. They're less flashy than, say, Rocket or La Marzocco. But they're solid, well laid out, and are made by the oldest remaining espresso machine company in the world (established 1902), are still Bezzera family owned, and have a badass snake logo. Lol.

Both machines do not have the capability to plumb in out of the box. You need a machine with a rotary pump to plumb in conveniently. The Bezzera Mitica is the Magica's sister machine with a rotary pump. It is switchable from water reservoir to plumb in.

Another benefit of E61 machines: Eric's thermometer. These are great for understanding your grouphead's idle temp, brew temp, effect of ambient temperature changes on grouphead temp, and understanding your machine's recovery. This will help you nail a good cooling flush routine. And the thermometer can help diagnose temp problems, since it will indicate any major temp changes caused by various problems, such as scale, thermosyphon stalls and more.

The other benefit of E61 machines are relatively easy repairs and parts availability. They're such a common machine type so there's a wealth of info and familiarity online. And many parts are off the shelf. So the DIY factor is another consideration.

Henrik
Posts: 3
Joined: 8 years ago

#8: Post by Henrik »

With the Magica (E61 version) you can easily realize caffe quality; ...and in many cases it is better. I noticed my cappuccino's have a bit dark, strong, slightly bitter taste (in a nice way, blending well with the sweetness of the milk). The Bezzera's have great steam boilers, so that part won't let you down either. At home quality control is more in your own hands; using fresh coffee blends, in a well maintained machine combined with e.g. great mineral water can lead to results which are harder to realize in a " high volume" environment like a coffee bar.
Nevertheless, if you run into issues like I had due to some scale buildup in the brewing path of the E61..., it turns the other way round... you will not reach that quality level. So it is up to your own knowledge, experience, common sense,... What I learned most from the E61 group is that, the E61 design is not the problem. If there are issues, these are mostly caused by the barista (in dealing with the E61). Improper use & maintenance can lead to quality issues, but if parameters are right it is great. For me dealing with this E61 makes it so much fun.

iCarumba (original poster)
Posts: 29
Joined: 8 years ago

#9: Post by iCarumba (original poster) »

Thanks for all the inputs. But now i probably have to change my mind since there are only few stores who currently have e61 in stock. I am thinking strega.. But im not sure its perfomance for milk drinks. People seem to grt them for straight shots and SO. So its between bz10 or strega.

Also the thermosyphon path on e61 group seems to be prone to scale issues.

iCarumba (original poster)
Posts: 29
Joined: 8 years ago

#10: Post by iCarumba (original poster) »

I just visited a coffee shop that happened to have victoria arduino lever. I have tasted espresso made by slayer or strada. Although they are supposed to be decent.. But my newbie tastebuds liking the va lever better. The espresso was not too overpower, less sour than slayer or lm and not bitter at all. I dont understand clarity but there were fruits and salt indeed. Maybe this is what smooth is.

Anyway im really considering strega. However i would like to hear about how this machine does for milk drinks. I dont like weak tasting cappuccino or piccolo.

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