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Bezzera BZ07 vs. La Nuova Cuadra

Postby Link on Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:19 pm

Hi all, I'm new to the prosumer espresso machine market with no barista experience. But I do know and appreciate great coffee. My 1st thought was buy a used commercial machine & plumb it in, after research on this site I figured out I do not need one of those to get a great coffee. I'm currently using a Cappreso burr grinder & a krupp 200.00 machine. I will be upgrading to a better grinder prior to getting a new machine. The only machine I can actually see at store is the Breville DB but I'm not crazy about that machine there is nobody in my area that can give advice on different machines. Hopefully you all can help out a total newbie. Here's what I've narrowed it down to using a machine budget of $1400.00 US. I will doing about 80% milk drinks 20% shots

Bezzera B707 good price 1.2K large tank 1.5L I'm not sure if I need PID model somewhere I read you dont
need a pid on an HX mach. ?

La Nuova Cuadra better price 1.1K larger tank at 1.8L but the plastic sides sorta put me off but a deal breaker.

Fiorenzato Bricoletta 1.3K 1.5L tank but some older reviews of this machine showed some reliability issues but these were reviews from 2008

Vibiemme Junior HX 1.4K highest price & smallest tank 1L

Thanks in advance for any opinions/suggestions on your choice or if there's another machine that fits the bill. I think I want a semi auto HX machine I'd also like one that I could keep on all day during the week ends that info. seems hard to find on certain machine.
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Postby erics on Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:29 pm

This would be a good read: http://www.home-barista.com/faqs-and-favorites-best-advice.html .

Instead of the BZ07, I would opt for the BZ10 (likely only available from Canadian dealers) and, if you opt for the Vibiemme (or any machine for that matter), I would ask that the machine be unboxed and bench tested and be more than willing to pay a little extra for that.
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Postby Link on Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:37 pm

erics wrote:This would be a good read: http://www.home-barista.com/faqs-and-favorites-best-advice.html .

Instead of the BZ07, I would opt for the BZ10 (likely only available from Canadian dealers) and, if you opt for the Vibiemme (or any machine for that matter), I would ask that the machine be unboxed and bench tested and be more than willing to pay a little extra for that.


Thanks, I read a lot of the faq & tips & reviews thats how i narrowed down my machine choices. I'll check out the BZ10 but why the 10 over the 7 ? I saw the 10 on ebay for about 1.4K but not very good description of machine.
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Postby erics on Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:42 pm

The site's search engine is your friend: http://www.home-barista.com/forums/search.php?keywords=BZ10&terms=all&author=&t=0&submit=Search&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300

I would not necessarily buy a machine from Ebay.
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Postby Link on Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:44 am

Thanks found the diff btw machines in that other post.

erics wrote:In no particular order, it gets you a dual pressure gage, a main power switch distanced from the drip tray area, and a more ergonomic design with the HW wand moved to an easily accessible area. To the best of my knowledge, they are identical from a hydraulic and electrical standpoint.

Image

I don't like ebay either esp when buying something I know nothing about. I've been searching different web sites and never heard of BZ10 until now. I'll keep looking for a retailer that sells them in US
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Postby radudanutco on Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:14 pm

If you are searching on Bezzera grounds, I would suggest MAGICA (replacing Medeea) with E61 group, a 2l boiler and (almost) 4l water tank; for 80% milk drinks regime, it has plenty of steam power.
For its larger capacities and better thermal stability in a whole day running, I think it deserves a 200EUR greater price than BZ10; also, BZ's have an electrically heated group (not a standard), a preinfusion based on vibration pump and perhaps is more prone to channeling - as they say, less forgiving;
actually, the Magica has the same price with a pointless PID-ed BZ07.
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Postby howard seth on Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:21 pm

I thought part of the advantage of these Bezzera models, from what I read on this website, some time ago - was that it didn't have an E-61 group - and that it was more like some of the Elektra models. The benefit being a different style of espresso. I don't know if that is accurate - but I have owned both an E-61 machine (Isomac) and an Elektra Semiautomatica. They do produce different styles of espresso. I prefer the Elektra for the "greater clarity" of flavor. I sold the E-61 machine. The Elektra does have its foibles - such as prone to fail pressure-stats. The Bezzera with a PID might avoid such trouble?
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Postby Link on Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:54 pm

radudanutco wrote:If you are searching on Bezzera grounds, I would suggest MAGICA (replacing Medeea) with E61 group, a 2l boiler and (almost) 4l water tank; for 80% milk drinks regime, it has plenty of steam power.
For its larger capacities and better thermal stability in a whole day running, I think it deserves a 200EUR greater price than BZ10; also, BZ's have an electrically heated group (not a standard), a preinfusion based on vibration pump and perhaps is more prone to channeling - as they say, less forgiving;
actually, the Magica has the same price with a pointless PID-ed BZ07.



Thanks for the input, I started looking at Magica last night & it's about $200 us more then the BZ10 & above budget but it's prob. the smarter choice due to the larger tank & E61. (I'm not sure why but I thought all the machines I listed in the 1st post were E61 gh ?) I'm glad I joined the forum even though I'll prob spend more money at least I'm gaining some knowledge prior to taking the plunge. Now I'll go back & see whats out there at Magica price point. With so many machine choices and styles it's a very overwhelming for total newbie. My GF said "just go ahead & buy one, there all going to make espresso right ?" She's prob. smarter then I give Her credit for !
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Postby erics on Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:28 pm

My GF said "just go ahead & buy one, there all going to make espresso right ?" She's prob. smarter then I give Her credit for !

That's very likely correct on all accounts. :)

Why not take a day trip to Santa Cruz and visit this site sponsor who has enough machines to keep you busy for a few hours? http://www.greatinfusions.com/index.html . The Rocket Cellini Pro is within your budget numbers.

Equally interesting would be a journey to Oregon to visit this shop: http://www.espressocare.com/ . Stefano is not necessarily a store front as is Great Infusions but he does usually have a few toys to play with and he is a Vibiemme expert amoungst other things.
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Postby Link on Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:17 pm

erics wrote:That's very likely correct on all accounts. :)

Why not take a day trip to Santa Cruz and visit this site sponsor who has enough machines to keep you busy for a few hours? http://www.greatinfusions.com/index.html . The Rocket Cellini Pro is within your budget numbers.

Equally interesting would be a journey to Oregon to visit this shop: http://www.espressocare.com/ . Stefano is not necessarily a store front as is Great Infusions but he does usually have a few toys to play with and he is a Vibiemme expert amoungst other things.


And she's way more patient :)

That's great, Santa Cruz is only about 2hrs from home so were going to make that trip. Oregon's a bit far but the Vibiemme is one I really like. Nothing compares to being able to see the product & talk with people who know what's up. I'll wait until I check out Great Infusions before I buy. Thanks for the info.
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