Connor MacLeod: There can be only one!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091203/quotes?qt0337068

Cheesy movie quotes aside, I'm finalizing my decision between these 3 machines: Bezzera BZ07, Vibiemme Junior DB or La Spaziale Vivaldi Mini.

I drink mostly espressos (born and raised in Italy, so that's a given), but I need good steaming capacity for entertaining. If it were for me only, I'd go with a Silvano, but I'd rather get the right machine from the start and crank out awesome cappuccinos when having a party.

I can't use a plumbed-in version, and would like to use it on a timer

As for my finalists, those are very different machines, and here's my logic:

At $1099, the Bezzera BZ07 is hard to rule out. A "different" HX machine, seems to address most of the HX/E61 weaknesses and require shorter cooling flushes (or close to none at all), based on what I read. Seems well built, I like the look (better than any of the other machines here) and the small footprint, and I love the fact that the full mechanical/electrical diagram is available online. There's also a PID model, if I wanted to thinker with the temperature easily. Can be put on a timer easily. Can buy the volumetric doser versions if I wanted (but I don't think it's worth the extra money for me). On the con side, uses a non standard portafilter, even if the filter itself is 58mm. Possibly hard to refill under the counter due to the narrow. Unsure about long term availability of spare parts, as well, as there doesn't seem to be as big a community around it

Vibiemme Domobar Junior Dual Boiler. The "real" E61 group, dual boiler guarantees much better temperature control (and ability to use only the brew boiler most of the times), can be PID-ed (or you can even get a PID-ed version from Hitechespresso for $1,550. BTW: if you use that setup can you please share your impressions?). Standard parts, easy to service and to thinker with. Kinda like the looks, and same small footprint as the Bezzera. Can be put on a timer easily. Easier than the BZ07 to refill when under a counter, but not great either. No real big cons, apart from a higher price ($1,469) for what seems not much more than a BZ07 in the end. But I might have found a nice used one for roughly the BZ07 price, which is tempting.

La Spaziale Vivaldi Mini II. Lots of people online seem to upgrade from an E61 machine to a Vivaldi, so that counts for something Best temperature control of all the machines listed here, easy to modify on the fly. With the pre-infusion kit offers everything an E61 offers, just a more modern version of it. Big community support (even if I can't register on the S1cafe forum for some reason). The easiest one to refill under a counter. Volumetric control, even if I don't care too much for it (but I'm sure it'll be a convenience of available) On the cons, non standard 53mm filter, much bigger than any of the other machines (to the point of almost being a problem) and I don't care for the looks (it's not stainless vs plastic, it's just that I find the overall look contrived). Expensive to put on a timer ($200!), or I can wire in parallel to the on/off button a relay to simulate a 3 second button push, either way a hassle.

The Mini would be outside my price range, if it were not for a used unit available for not much more than a new Junior DB.

In the end, finding the right deal would probably help with the analysis/paralysis loop I'm in (if you plan to upgrade your machine, especially one of the above, please PM me ).

I'm using a Baratza Vario, btw, just in case anyone would suggest spending more money on the grinder, and I could not buy a bigger grinder anyway (WAF). But from my experiments, the Vario seems more than capable for any of the machines above.

So, what would you do if you were me? (assume I can justify the budget, even if I'd rather save money).

Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom you can share, Rob

I can at least share some of my experience with the Vibiemme. I went from Silvia to Lapavoni Pro to Vibiemme Jr DB. At first I exclusively drank straight espresso, no latte's, no cappucinos. And I was happy

However, happiness did not last

A while ago I decided I wanted to learn how to foam milk, so I started making cappuccino's. Two problems soon emerged. The first, which was easily fixed, was that since I almost always make coffee just for me, the steam tip was no good. Exchanged for a tip with much smaller holes, problem solved!

The second problem is more of a dealbreaker if you ask me. The thermostat to the brew boiler is positioned in a way that makes it sensitive about heat and/or steam from the steam boiler. So if you dial in the temperature with the steam boiler off, brew temperature will drop several degrees if you turn on the steam boiler and let it sit for a while.

I still love the design, and for straight espresso it is wonderful, but if it is to be used for cappu's and latte's, go for one with a PID.

Hi Rob,

I've just gone through several weeks of sleepless nights researching a new machine and ended up purchasing a mini vivaldi. I was upgrading from an entry level single boiler machine (ascaso dream), so the logical next step could have been a silvia or an e61 hx machine. The more I researched the more confused I got, but eventually a couple of things become obvious, one of which was the number of second hand e61 hx machines being sold as the owner upgraded to a mini vivaldi, generally because of better temp control and temp stability.

The other machine that came very close for me was the ponte vecchio lusso 2 group - at over $1000 less than the mini vivaldi it has a lot going for it, but availability was an issue for me.

In the end I figured that rather than upgrading in steps, in the long run it would be better to go straight to the top and avoid the hassles of researching / selling / upgrading somewhere in the near future.

I've only had the vivaldi for about a week, so still very much in learning phase, but enjoying it a lot. The warm-up phase is not as bad as I expected - from cold to working temp for both boilers only takes about 20 minutes. The group head feels quite hot to the touch at this point, but I'll still pull one or two blanks to warm things through before making the first coffee. The smaller size of the boilers helps in this regard and possibly being 240v here in australia may make a difference.

As for the looks, I quite like it because it is different - I have a strong aversion to the big shiny e61 machines as they all look the same and I don't want something that big and shiny in the kitchen.

Not sure what to advise you though, as everybody's circumstances are different. For me the mini vivaldi was more than I wanted to spend but I figured it was the most future-proof of all the machines I looked at and therefore the best buy for the long run.

I can't compare these machines, but I have a Bezzera BZ07 PM PID and it's OK. Some points:

- brew pressure is set too high in the factory (12 bar). Ask your vendor to adjust it (or do it yourself).
- inserting the portafilter requires a surprising amount of force. Seems to be a feature of many Bezzera machines. Try it in the shop; some people don't like it.
- the machines puts itself into passive mode when the water tank still is 1/4 - 1/5 full. Explained to me as a safety measure.
- the Bezzera BZ07 is not made for updosing. You have to be careful or the coffee hits the shower screen.

After 15 min you can make a decent espresso. Never needed a cooling flush etc. I don't feel the PID is necessary, but I can't compare with PID-less machines. (I didn't order the PID version, but they sent me one for the price of the PID-less version.) Massive steam power; could propel a small submarine. Took me some time to get used to it.

A big step forward from my old Faema Family. As far as I can judge a well-built machine. I'm glad I bought it and didn't go for a Vibiemme or an Expobar (two other contenders).

Thanks for the answers so far

Sir Anselm wrote:The second problem is more of a dealbreaker if you ask me. The thermostat to the brew boiler is positioned in a way that makes it sensitive about heat and/or steam from the steam boiler. So if you dial in the temperature with the steam boiler off, brew temperature will drop several degrees if you turn on the steam boiler and let it sit for a while.

I thought the Junior used a pressurestat, which should not be sensitive to the heat coming from the other boiler... definitely something to worry about. Is this a common problem for other Junior owners?

Does the Junior have any insulation? Is there any room to add insulation inside, and somewhat reduce the problem?

I just bought the JR from 1st-line that was slightly used, so if that's the one you were looking at you can cross that off. Now I have the same questions about it!