So, I like my Vario and the value it offers is great but I've been unsatisfied when i change roasts and try to tune the grind to match. Therefore, I'm in the market for a new espresso grinder that I can use in my kitchen. The problem though is that most (all?) of the titan grinders are taller than will fit under the standard kitchen cabinets.

(my search didn't turn up what I was looking for, but it is probably just me)

Thanks
michael

Versalab M3

Let me qualify that I have no personal experience with any of the titan grinders but recently went through the same dilemma and research. I believe standard cabinet height is 17" but that obviously varies so providing your cabinet height would help--mine only accommodate 16 1/4" due to some trim molding. I really wanted a K8 or K10 Fresh but even with the short hoppers, they're still 20" tall. I believe I read that some members here use a standard K10 without the hopper for single dosing and I suspect without a hopper they may fit under cabinets. I'm not sure if a Mazzer Kony or Robur will fit under cabinets without a hopper and I believe you need to make a minor mod to make it work without a hopper in place. And as tekomino mentioned, there's certainly the Versalab M3.

The Mahlkonig K30 Vario with a short hopper is 17 1/2" so depending on your cabinet height, they may be an option. It is a flat burr machine but from what I've read online, K30 Vario owners seem to generally rave about their performance.

FWIW, I ultimately went with a Mahlkonig ProM grinder. It's certainly not a titan but has 65 mm flat burrs (same size as K30 Vario, Mazzer Super Jolly has 64 mm), is pretty quick, seems to leave a small amount of leftover grinds in the chute, has timed dosing and infinite adjustability of grind, and most importantly for our household, had a small footprint and fits under our cabinets. So far I've been very happy with the results but my only basis of comparison is against my old Rocky doserless.

Regarding the Versalab. It is 13.25" without the hopper and right at 20" with an 8 oz capacity hopper. For single dosing you don't really need the hopper.

tekomino wrote:Versalab M3

What exactly are you unsatisfied about when it comes to adjusting your grind?

rgs1218 wrote:FWIW, I ultimately went with a Mahlkonig ProM grinder. It's certainly not a titan but has 65 mm flat burrs (same size as K30 Vario, Mazzer Super Jolly has 64 mm), is pretty quick, seems to leave a small amount of leftover grinds in the chute, has timed dosing and infinite adjustability of grind, and most importantly for our household, had a small footprint and fits under our cabinets. So far I've been very happy with the results but my only basis of comparison is against my old Rocky doserless.

I've also been very happy with my ProM. As I have noted before, its easily adjustable and repeatable timer makes single dosing unnecessary, and its hopper fits neatly under just about any cabinet. I have no experience with the Versalab.

I'm very happy with my La Cimbali Max/Hybrid.

It's a great grinder in terms of grind quality, but there are some things which may or may not be issues depending on how you use your grinder.

The La Cimbali doser does not come off. So, if you want "doserless," read no further.

Without grinding away some plastic inside the doser you cannot get to the shoot to clean it with a brush.

The grinder wants coffee in the hopper or it will "popcorn." It's a poor choice for anyone who wants to single dose. Because the hopper requires removing screws to separate from the grinder, it's also not a good choice for someone who changes coffees frequently.

It doesn't come with a timer, which means you'll want to add something like a darkroom timer. While that's hardly difficult or inconvenient, it isn't free either. Consider the extra expense -- not far from $200 for a high quality, new timer like a Gralab -- before calculating the "such a deal" aspects.

Compared to some of the other titans -- especially the Malkoenigs, it's relatively slow and noisy (although not by "regular" grinder standards.

Espresso ONLY! Fineness is adjusted by a very precise, mechanical worm drive driven by a small knob. I forget how many turns it takes to go from an espresso grind to the sort of medium grind appropriate for a pour over, but you'd have to measure time in geological units.

Enough poor mouthing.

Grind quality is excellent. I recently took a class which supplied a Malkonig E30 and a Mazzer Kony for grinding. Not to wander too far afield, the Malkonig is a lot easier to use, but the Kony puts a little more nuance in the cup. Each one is a great grinder, and their respective grind qualities are easily a match for the Max Hybrid's. But neither's is superior. That puts the Cimbali in some pretty exclusive company.

Like darn near anything labeled "La Cimbali," the Max Hybrid is extraordinarily well built. (The design itself is a mixture of La Cimbali and Chris Nachtrieb of Chris Coffee. Chris had La Cimbali put their extraordinary Max burr set into the very friendly Junior body. FWIW, the "Hybrid" in the name refers to the Max/Junior confluence and not the "hybrid" flat + conical burr set.)

Even with the timer, it's relatively inexpensive considering the grind quality.

Ergonomics are excellent. Best doser I've ever used, and a real clean sweeper at that.

Design is a matter of taste, but if you've got a lot of industrial looking stainless in your kitchen/coffee-room; the Max Hybrid will certainly fit.

Under counter? Yes, indeed.

The La Cimbali's restrictions have no effect on the way I make coffee. Doser, check; Don't change coffee too often, check; Keep beans in the hopper, check; Not too noisy for my house, check; etc. Don't sweep the chute or take the damn thing apart too frequently, check. But, I'm not you.

Given my preferences and practices, and factoring in the slightly lower price, I'd buy the Cimbali again -- especially if looking for something short enough to fit under a 17" kitchen cabinet. The Malkonig ProM would be my second choice. I'm pretty sure the Versa Lab would drive me nuts. After those three, the quality drop off is pretty steep unless you're amenable to removing the hopper every time you want to store your grinder under those famous cabinets.

BDL

I'd have no disagreement from the great suggestions posted already. Good grinders, those, and I would add my very positive experience with the Macap M7K with its 68mm low-RPM conical burrs. I've performed the typical "hopper-ectomy" and currently have this grinder sliding nicely under 15 1/2 in. cabinets.

If you haven't already checked this out, this grinder is discussed (as are the others too of course) in the famous Titan Grinder Project and its Beat the Robur offshoot. There's also a thread regarding this grinder available in the Grinders Forum discussing the mods I mentioned to give you an idea of pursuing this option.

Regardless, you're going to love the results from one of these machines.

Marshall wrote:I've also been very happy with my ProM. As I have noted before, its easily adjustable and repeatable timer makes single dosing unnecessary, and its hopper fits neatly under just about any cabinet. I have no experience with the Versalab.

On a related note, I wanted to thank you Marshall as the information/experience of use you provided in the few ProM related threads I found went a long way in assisting me with my decision to purchase the ProM.

Marshall wrote:I've also been very happy with my ProM. As I have noted before, its easily adjustable and repeatable timer makes single dosing unnecessary, and its hopper fits neatly under just about any cabinet. I have no experience with the Versalab.

Didn't you mean to say, "...repeatable timer makes weighing the dose unnecessary..."?

Not that I agree with that statement, but single dosing has nothing to do with how you produce the desired dose size. It's primarily a method that allows switching coffees more quickly and with less waste. For some grinders, it can minimize wasted coffee due to staling of retained grinds.