Most people say the BDB is underpowered in the steam department, but if you've never used one - or steamed on any machine at all - I can promise it will more than suffice.

To be honest, my Breville Barista is known for having very mediocre steam capacity when referenced in this forum (and way crappier than the dual boiler), but I have zero issues producing near-cafe-quality latte art and smooth creamy milk with mine ... The only thing lacking are my latte art skills. So - take everything you read with a grain of salt.

flathead1 wrote:Zak,

I know you've nixed the grinder upgrade but ....

Whole Latte Love has a sale on now for a Expobar Office lever (HX) and a Vario grinder for $1699. there is a 7% off sale going on which I assume can be used which takes it to $1580. (I am not affiliated in any way with WLL). If the 7% doesn't work for some reason give them a call and see if they can help you with a better price over the phone.

Unfortunately you've fallen in with bad company, crazy espresso guys who believe in their bones that the grinder is so much more important than the machine that we can't give up on recommending the grinder.

Tell your boss the grinder comes as part of a package and that it is a multi-tasker which can go from espresso grind to drip to french press easily and quickly (The Vario is optimized for Espresso but does have the ability to change grind size by the manipulation of the grind levers). If he still hesitates tell him there is a catch bin for the Vario and you will keep fresh (relatively) ground espresso in it for him to use each day.

Thanks for the response, Bill. I don't disagree or think you guys are crazy for continuing to push the grinder. But if I buy a OE Pharos (supposedly one of the best grinders for under $1k), keep it in the lab, and offer to let anyone use it, then it's a win-win, right? (Or "win-win-win," if you're a fan of The Office.)

Already own a tamper, knock box, and few steaming pitchers. I'd like to purchase a bottomless portafilter, though.

FWIW, I can pull a good shot and decent micro-foam with the current setup, it's just not consistent. Often, I have to really fiddle with the steam wand to get adequate pressure, and it always takes over a minute to steam about 8 oz sometimes double that. One of my lab mates and my girlfriend (EDIT: wife, oops!) both worked as baristas previously, and neither can get the steam wand to work well. In using the machine 5-7 times a week for about two years now, I've learned it's quirks but it's just a pain to deal with inadequate steam pressure. And yes, I can make reasonable latte art (most of the time).

RE: Breville,

Keep in mind he said: "I want a good machine that won't break in 6 months."

Not that a Breville will necessarily break in 6 months but reliability and longevity is not its forte.

No one on this forum has data on reliability of espresso machines. So feel free to ignore those durability comments with all due respect, the poster simply has a personal preference.

Breville will be fine for home use and its improved ergonomics and speed will be welcome. All money saved will go to the grinder which is infinitely more important.

+1

The original Breville Dual Boiler model BES900, which first came out quite a few years back, has been replaced by the BES920. The 920 had many design changes to make it more durable. And it has a two year warranty that usually is a free machine swap if needed. A $1000 Breville 920 with a $500 grinder can now get you in great setup at $1500. I'm very impressed with it so far, it is a very convenient, easy, and I would say fun machine to use.

Apogee wrote:No one on this forum has data on reliability of espresso machines. So feel free to ignore those durability comments with all due respect, the poster simply has a personal preference.

Breville will be fine for home use and its improved ergonomics and speed will be welcome. All money saved will go to the grinder which is infinitely more important.

Sure, you are right there is no data on any espresso machine.

But one can search the forums for information on common problems and read about what type of parts and materials are used inside and consider where and how it was assembled and read about how easy or hard it is to fix said machine when it does break, and then draw their own conclusions.

Like I said no one on this forum has any data on reliability. Therefore Breville has equal reliability until someone shows valid stats. You all are confusing folks, the machine if pressure and temp stable doesn't matter. Test on refractometer.

Stainless steel boilers. Check. PID. Check. 2 year replacement warranty. Check. Stable temp, Fantastic. Stable pressure. Check.

The grinder is infinitely more important. The point.

I suggest that your research yields two options.

1) THE FLAVOR & IMPROVED BUILD OPTION (the bundled package)
- Improvement in machine quality over last one
- Grinder included for fresh flavor improvement, and freshly preground available for speed
2) THE BUILT LIKE A TANK OPTION (a machine that's pushing the budget)
- Made to last
- Super Steam

If the preground use remains in play, you might consider a machine that is somewhat forgiving of grind. What that is, I'm not sure.

Said another way. If your using preground coffee nothing else matters. It is impossible to overcome. God shot unattainable.

SILVANO EVO quick mill , new features , right size , 2 year warranty , july 7% off sale / and BARATZA VARIO GRINDER , total $1500 / CHRIS' COFFEE ~