Ok so Ive outgrown my $60 espresso machine(mainly cause I bought it in China so its 220V and its annoying to be connecting it to a 220V plug I have outside the house) so now which machine to buy.

I figured if Im going to buy a machine it better be something better than what I already have, which isnt really difficult since the one I have appears to be some chinese rip off of something else, still proved to be strong enough to brew a cup or two a day for the past 2 years. So first thing I thought was might as well be an automatic and have that pod system.

So as far as my research has proven I dont really think I need to spend more than 500 on a machine since I do still consider myself a newbie after all Ive only been drinking espresso for the last 3 or 4 years and Im not about to set up my own espresso bar(but it mainly revolves on the fact that Im still a student without a great budget, specially if I want to save up for a grinder afterwards).

So these are the best choices Ive come up with:

Gaggia Baby D
Bodum Granos
Solis SL 90

semi automatics
Espressione Cafe retro
Francis Francis X3
Solis SL 70
Rancilio Silvia (543 was the cheapest I found but Ive heard a lot of it so might as well include it)

I was considering a Krups and a DeLonghi but Ive heard too much bad stuff about them so Ive decided not to.

So as far as my research has gone the Francis Francis is mainly design but according to some reviews from coffeegeek.com the X3 one was a surprise to the quality it had, that same site reviewed Solis SL 70 with one of the highest scores as far as coffee machine go. Unfortunately there werent many reviews at the site. Ive heard a lot about how great the Rancilio Silvia. Bodum apparently surprised everyone with its first espresso machine being very well made and being able to provide a very good espresso cup with full automatic features and a very nice design. Solis SL 90 is the big brother of the Solis SL 70 so I figured it cant be bad at all. I havent found anything at all on the Espressione brand machines and I decided to include it here since it has a nice design(apparent ripoff the Francis Francis X1) and its cheap. And the last but not least Gaggia Baby D, which although I havent heard much about specifically the baby D, Gaggia seems to be a long time favorite for espresso lovers and baristas.

Im close to making a Choice which is mainly between the Gaggia Baby D and the Bodum Granos, the lead is with Bodum Granos cause I found a site(http://www.essentialespresso.com/Bodum-...-P381.aspx) who have it in stock and sell it for $364 unlike the 499 price I find in every other single site meanwhile the Gaggia Baby D is 499 everywhere. So so far my best choice is Bodum for the price, otherwise Id go with the Gaggia because as far as my research shows its one of the best machine I can buy as far as my constraints go. What do you guys think? any experiences with the machines? Anybody would like to add another machine for me to consider? Ohh and I was reading about the E61 system on this site but how do I know which machine has that system and which ones dont?

Thanks for everything

raven wrote:
Im close to making a Choice which is mainly between the Gaggia Baby D and the Bodum Granos, the lead is with Bodum Granos cause I found a site(http://www.essentialespresso.com/...-Machine-P381.aspx) who have it in stock and sell it for $364 unlike the 499 price I find in every other single site meanwhile the Gaggia Baby D is 499 everywhere. So so far my best choice is Bodum for the price, otherwise Id go with the Gaggia because as far as my research shows its one of the best machine I can buy as far as my constraints go. What do you guys think? any experiences with the machines? Anybody would like to add another machine for me to consider? Ohh and I was reading about the E61 system on this site but how do I know which machine has that system and which ones dont?

You will find some good guidance here and good advice. One of the most common pieces of advice is look at your grinder before you start looking at your machine. Do you have a GOOD espresso grinder? If not then that's what you need to be putting the bulk of your money into on a $500 budget. If you do not have a good grinder then spend as much as you can on that and then use the rest on the espresso machine. That being the case I'd go with a Cunill Tranquilo or Rancilio Rocky and then get one of the lower-end Gaggia machines such as the Gaggia Espresso. Or..even better, try and score a Mazzer on Ebay for $400 or less. Then you'll have about $100 left and the low-end Gaggias sometimes go for around that on Ebay. I got a lightly used Mazzer Mini on Ebay for $305. The Super Jollies can be sometimes had for a good price too. If it's too big for you then you can run it without the bean hopper on top.

As far as the Bodum Granos is concerned..it has a pressurized PF. I've not heard of any nonpressurized PF's for it. Cross that one off your list. I've never heard much good about it anyway. None of the machines you listed have an E61 group. I'd say of the ones you mentioned the Silvia is the most capable but there is a learning curve and YOU MUST HAVE A GOOD GRINDER.

bc

How about a spring-type lever machine? Very easy to operate. It is a mechanical (spring-driven) pump rather than an electrical pump. Spring-levers do not require you to pull with exactly the right arm pressure as a manual lever does. They let you to focus on your barista skills -- grind, dose, distribution, tamp, etc.

Ponte Vecchio Export. You can find pictures of the Export here on H-B.com

You can even steam milk while the shot is in progress! A feature that would cost $1500+ on a pump machine. With the spring-lever, you simply pull the lever down, and after a couple of seconds, let go of the lever so it can rise slowly under the spring's power. While it rises, you steam your milk, with no impact upon the brew water temperature of the current shot.

There is also a more expensive ($700) horizontal "club" model, the Ponte Vecchio Lusso. It has a pressure gauge and a thermosyphon and a larger drip tray and cup warming tray on top.

Regards
Timo

The only machine for less than $500 I would even consider would be a Gaggia Espresso ($200, I got a Gaggia Coffee refurb for $225 from wholelattelove.com, that's the only reason why I don't have a Gaggia espresso). The boiler is aluminum but who cares? Have had mine for over a year with zero problems!

DigMe is right you should be shopping for the grinder first, get the best grinder you can and then a Gaggia Espresso and you'll be making far better shots than a $500 machine and cheap grinder.

Gaggia Coffee and Rancilio Rocky (do even better than a Rocky if you can, but the Rocky isn't bad):

I think a good machine in that price range is the Barista at Starbucks. You can buy a new one for about $400, they've been around for several years, and Starbucks gives great customer service. Sure, it's got a pressurized portafilter, but since you're thinking of using pods anyway, so what.
I've owned both the Barista and the Gaggia Espresso and, in my opinion the Barista is a better built machine. I had lots of problems with the Gaggia and ended up tossing it in the trash. That was in the days before Ebay so would take a different approach now.
Bill

thank you very much for your insight.
Unfortunately I sold my espresso machine to a friend that offered me 50bucks for it right there and then so the problem about buying a grinder first is that right now I only have 500 to spend if I buy a 400dls grinder im only going to be able to buy a 100dls espresso machine or even worst ill end up buying a 500dls grinder and no espresso machine and I do want to make coffee afterall. What I was thinking was buy the espresso machine first then wait and save another 500 and buy a grinder. Cause if I buy the grinder first then I wont have espresso anyways until I buy the machine. I do however have a grinder, except its one of those cheap bunn coffee grinders that pretty much works as a blender. So unless I buy one of the 200 Gaggia machines and spend 300 on a grinder(which I must say its a good option) its really difficult for me to buy a grinder first.

Timo888 got me interested in the ponte vecchio, so please explain a bit more on the lever machines. They still have a boiler and everything right? except I create the pressure with the lever right? One guy told me the main difference is that with the semi automatics or automatics the perfect espresso pretty much depends on the machine meanwhile in the lever machine the perfect espresso depends completely in your skills; is that true?

As far as the pressurized filter basket on the bodum goes, as Ive heard before it helps with old coffee but what effect does it have on new coffee, is it that bad? Being a bit realist I live in the north part of Mexico, a place where the easiest way to get Mexican coffee is to import back from the states that or wait a month or so for a special delivery from chiapas or veracruz. Anyways the point is, its very very hard for me to get coffee thats not already at least a month old, even worst if i consider my favorite coffee Lavazza which comes from Europe and thanks to the Mexican government and its dumb protectionist rules anything that comes from europe takes a month to go through customs and they open and check each and every package so plus shipping time and the fact that lavazza is not usually bought in Mexico then I end up being able to get at least some 3 month old lavazza. True I can get some green beans here in Mexico but I dont really consider myself a good roaster.

ok so best choice right now is either the Ponte Vecchio or the Gaggia Baby D or the 200 Gaggia and a 300 Grinder Combo

as far as the grinders go lets put a 300 limit
how is the Gaggia MDF
I suppose Mazzer is one of the best choices except they all are above 300 so unless I wait thats not much of an option.
How is the Rancilio Rocky?
What other grinders would you recommend?

So I suppose you would recommend going for the 200 Gaggia and a 300 Rancilio Rocky or something like that?

Thanks for all your help.

I will second that the Starbuck's Barista is not a bad starter machine.... and I would also add that you can find them on eBay for MUCH less than retail, often with some added goodies. But, the Barista is on par with many of the Gaggia machines (FYI - the Barista is made by Saeco). I think all the Barista machines have a steel or painted steel shell, unlike many others discussed here which are plastic.

Given your situation and the difficulty of getting fresh coffee, you may be well served to get a machine that has a pressurized portafilter or basket. Ideally it would be nice to have a machine that could be pressurized or non-pressurized. The Solis has a pressurized basket easily swapped for a non-pressurized, the SB Barista has a pressurized portafilter that can be swapped for about $30 or so. I'm not sure you have any options on the Bodum or other machines. I do not believe any of the Gaggia machines have pressurized PFs, but some do support PODs.

As to the grinder, the Rocky is good at ~$300 ($200 used), or the Cunill Tranquilo ~$200, or maybe even a $150 conical plastic machine like the Solis Maestro Plus or similar. You can find good used grinders from $100-300 (usually stepped) better than the above if you are so inclined.

Another option you might consider is a quality grinder now and use a press pot or Moka pot and wait on the espresso machine until later.....

Unfortunately, of all the machines discussed so far, except for a lever machine, the only one I would bet money on still being usable in 10 years time is Silvia... it's a well-built machine, no plastics, big, heavy. The others, light and toy-like in comparison.

raven wrote:
So I suppose you would recommend going for the 200 Gaggia and a 300 Rancilio Rocky or something like that?

On your budget that is my recommendation. Or the $200 Cunill Tranquilo from http://sovranastore.com/esgrin.html

bc

jesawdy wrote:(FYI - the Barista is made by Saeco

FYI - Gaggia is owned by Saeco, too!
I'd also recommend the Solis Maestro Plus. I've had a Solis Maestro for several years and use it with my french press. They're well-built for the price, relatively quiet, and are more then adequate for espresso machines in the price range you're considering. I think, but not sure, that some of the grinders I see in Starbucks are made by Solis.
Bill

bill wrote:They're well-built for the price, relatively quiet, and are more then adequate for espresso machines in the price range you're considering.

I don't understand this statement. To me it seems like that you'd especially want a better grinder with an espresso machine in this price range because you want to improve the product as much as possible and they're going to be less forgiving than a good E-61 or something of that nature.

IMO you want to always get the best grinder you can, not try and match the budget of the grinder to the budget of the machine.

bc