Les, the Anita and Andreja are HX machines not double boiler.
With HX machines you usually have to flush the brew head with about 4 to 6 ounces of water to be able to pull a shot at the right temperature. On the other hand, some think that PIDing an HX machine defeats its purpose because you either set it up to brew properly affecting the quality of the steam or viceversa.
In addition to that, you can get a Brewtus lll for less money than the PID Andreja of the link.

Doesn't the brewtus have a PID built in?

In all my research, there are a fair amount of posts on having a particular roast change radically at as little as 2 degree change. Wouldn't this be a good reason to have a PID on any machine you can temp surf on?

Yes! Any single boiler machine would benefit having one.

I was talking about HX machines with PID......

The Brewtus lll is a true double boiler and one of the upgrades compared to the Brewtus ll is the excellent quality PID.

Check the new brochures with inside pics, upgrades etc...

http://www.wholelattelove.com/art...light_brewtus3.cfm

So the Heat exchanger machines would not benefit from a PID at all?

Is a type of machine is a Silvia?

Thanks,

Jeff

Lockman, Silvia is a single boiler machine. Brewtus is a double boiler machine.

HX machines are something in between. They have some some pros and cons like every type of espresso machine.

Pros that I know of:

At 120 v and 15 amps the steam power is unmatched.

Cons:

-They tend to run very hot so you have to flush the head with about 5 ounces of water in order to get the temperature down to brew properly.
- Temperature stability
- You have to refill the water tank often.

Double Boiler:

Pros

-Temperature stability


Con:

- at 120 volts 15 amps some people complain about steam power.

In my experience, I do not need more than Silvia's steaming power and Brewtus lll has a drier and more powerful steaming performance

mariowar wrote:
Double Boiler:
[...]
Con:
- at 120 volts 15 amps some people complain about steam power.

I don't understand why double boiler machines would have poorer steam performance than HXs. If anything, I would think they should be superior since you could increase the pressure/temp with no ill effect on brew temperatures. What am I missing? Is it that db boilers are smaller?

Jack

I think he is saying at 15 amps it suffers.

I still dont see why a PID would not benefit either machine.

Jack, to be honest I have never ever tried an HX. What turned me down was the idea of the long flush before brewing. And I just wanted to get rid of surfing and flushing.....

I have read that most of the issues designing home double boiler machines come down to have them working properly at 120 volts /15 amps. If you check, most of the current model being offered are either 20 AMPS or the boilers never heat at the same time, like Mini Spaziale and Brewtus.

As I said, I come form a Silvia, the golden standard of single boiler machines and I do not miss her a BIT and I loved her like no other.

The only annoying issue with either HX or double boilers is that it is a pain in the arse to descal them, therefore, you have to be cautious about the hardness of the water you are using. To hard would ruin your machine in months, on the other hand, distilled ( the softest) would cause issue with the auto refill. Therefore, I purchased a digital TDS (13 bucks in Ebay) to measure it, and I just mix them out

mariowar wrote:The only annoying issue with either HX or double boilers is that it is a pain in the arse to descal them, therefore, you have to be cautious about the hardness of the water you are using[snip]

I remember some of the DB machines having drain plugs on them. Would that make the process easier?

I guess so, but as far as I know, even if they have it , it is not an easy task to get the solution out of the system.

The best thing is prevention, I have read about people using water at about 50 ppm ( compared to 280pp- Tap water in Houston) and running espreso machines in homes for over 5 years without issues related to calcium and magnesium . Then, without knowing this, they had put them apart to descall them properly finding out that there was not buildup.