Tearing through the FAQs, reading through the bench, and burning google up, I feel I pretty much have narrowed down my choice of machine: but now I need some help.

I feel like I may be missing something in my thought process or perhaps am forgetting what other considerations I should take and would like to ask for some advice to avoid that buyers remorse a month later after my purchase. A little background on me - I've been patiently pulling decent shots off of a FF X1 for the last 6 years, but have long felt the limitations of that machine. Decided a couple months ago that I wanted to step up, not step laterally (which I felt a silvia or gaggia would be), and thus began the dark road down espresso research. I've taken a 1 day barista course to further my knowledge, but even that course felt like a tourist trip as there's so much more out there. Here's where I am now.

Let me start by saying what I will do or want:

1: I'm Primarily an espresso drinker( typical of me to have 3-4 doubles a day)
2: I'll do 1-3 milk drinks per day based on guests and/or wife (of course this would double based on dinner guests, but that would be 1-2 a month)
3: Rotary pump is a must
4: Prefer a tank, but I can be convinced otherwise
5: Live in sweden, so all machines will be 220v

So that's where I am today. After reading several threads on the x machine vs the y machine, I figured that the Alex Duetto II pretty much had everything that I wanted. It was rotary, it was a tank(with optional plumbing later) and it was even a double boiler. Not that I'm for or against HX, it's just what it had.

I decided to send an email to a vendor that had some really good prices on some Quickmill machines and I asked him what his experiences of the Izzo machines were, as I noticed he had several different brands but not the izzo's. Without going into details on who this was (suffice it to say though that I'm dealing with EU vendors and this vendor is very large in his home country of Italy), he replied to my inquiries that the reason they don't carry the Izzo's was because of the amount of quality issue's that they've had with them. I know that what he's saying could be based on that they don't have Izzo in the first place, or it could be based on actual truth. I need to know first hand experience from the users here at HB if they have had such experiences? Should I be considering another machine? I'm open to any suggestion as my only priority was that it's a rotary machine that would meet my drink requirements on a daily basis. I can be convinced to plumb, but I was looking at a tank machine first as plumbing felt like a bigger commitment to me.

After reading this post now, what issues should I be thinking about, what considerations have I missed, what other machines should I look at, and lastly are there issues with the Duetto II?

I would say that typical prosumer machines have their share of assembly issues. I have owned two them (Expobar Brewtus II, Izzo Duetto) and been following quite closely what people tell about their experiences on different forums. My gut feeling is that more industrial machines (small single boilers and thermoblocks) almost never have problems with their assembly. They are produced in large quantities and are quite simple. The same cannot be said about manually built prosumer machines that are more complex. Also they typically are the marginal product of a company specialised mostly in large professional machines.

So now and then new machines have problems with leaking seals, electrical contacts etc. Also there are small design quirks, like Brewtus II venting OPV water on the drip tray.

On the other hand, the overall quality of the machines is better when compared to cheaper industrial ones. There are no irreplaceable plastic parts etc. A prosumer E61 will last forever, where as a cheap Gaggia won't.

I don't see why Izzo would be worse than others in this regard, all the brands seem to have their own issues. Though La Marzocco is in their own league in taking care of the issues. Vendors and machine repair shops have a better understanding of the quality differences, but usually have their own connections and biases. So probably you have to rely on your gut feeling here...

I've been inhaling this and other coffee forums for six months. Somehow, in all the late-night reading, I formed the impression that there were quality issues with the Duetto. I asked about that in one forum, and was challenged by one of several happy Duetto owners there to provide links to information about the problems.

I couldn't do it. Searching on the web produced only a couple of complaints. Since it's the nature of online chatter that we'll more often hear about problems than we will about trouble-free machines, it seems likely that there aren't as many quality issues as Izzo's competiting distributor would have you believe (or as I believed!) This is actually pretty remarkable considering that the Duetto II is a relatively-new machine.

And re: plumbing-in or not, as someone who plumbed-in a machine (not a Duetto) after years of pour-over, I can tell you that I would NEVER return to pour-over. I've seen quite a few other people say the same thing. Drill, punch, sweat, do whatever you have to do, a plumbed-in machine quickly feels even more convenient than you think it will.

I've been inhaling this and other coffee forums for six months. Somehow, in all the late-night reading, I formed the impression that there were quality issues with the Duetto. I asked about that in one forum, and was challenged by one of several happy Duetto owners there to provide links to information about the problems.

Some of the machines from the first production batch (including mine) had a leaking brew boiler gasket. That is the only systematic issue I am aware of. Compared to my other machine Brewtus II it seems that Duetto has been maybe a bit more trouble free, according to what I've read, heard and experienced myself.

boyscout wrote:And re: plumbing-in or not, as someone who plumbed-in a machine (not a Duetto) after years of pour-over, I can tell you that I would NEVER return to pour-over. I've seen quite a few other people say the same thing. Drill, punch, sweat, do whatever you have to do, a plumbed-in machine quickly feels even more convenient than you think it will.

Yes, I kind of figured that out from the various threads where plumbed members seem especially happy. But the question arises then, if I choose to plumb then, is there a better machine in the same class as a Duetto that has more room in the internals? Better meaning just ease of DIY repairs as the Duetto seems very cramped on the inside because they had to make room for the tank. If not, then I think the Duetto will be my machine.

Any recommendations for a vendor in the EU? I know that Bellabarista sells them, I'm just curious if someone has a better price?

lolgun wrote:if I choose to plumb then, is there a better machine in the same class as a Duetto that has more room in the internals?

Other plumb-in, rotary pump, double-boiler machines are the Brewtus III-R, the Vibiemme DoubleDomo Super, the Vivaldi II, and the La Marzocco GS/3, the latter being much more expensive. Probably like you I've seen only photos, but all of them seem densely-packed into their skins, the GS/3 maybe a bit less so.

Doesn't mean they are necessarily very hard to work on... maybe someone else who has actually worked on them will have an opinion about one being easier than the other.

GS/3 is as packed as the other's, maybe even more so because it has more electronics. For DIY and reliability, a nice HX would be maybe the best option.

boyscout wrote:Other plumb-in, rotary pump, double-boiler machines are the Brewtus III-R, the Vibiemme DoubleDomo Super, the Vivaldi II, and the La Marzocco GS/3, the latter being much more expensive. Probably like you I've seen only photos, but all of them seem densely-packed into their skins, the GS/3 maybe a bit less so.

Doesn't mean they are necessarily very hard to work on... maybe someone else who has actually worked on them will have an opinion about one being easier than the other.

The Vivaldi S1V2 is strictly a plumb in model so no reservoir crammed inside. I owned one for 2 years & found it very easy to work on & dead reliable. It's also the only machine discussed in this thread with programmable line pressure pre infusion.

akallio wrote:GS/3 is as packed as the other's, maybe even more so because it has more electronics. For DIY and reliability, a nice HX would be maybe the best option.

What does that leave us with, the Vetrano and the ViBi's? Or even the Brewtus III, or was that a DB as well?

What does that leave us with, the Vetrano and the ViBi's? Or even the Brewtus III, or was that a DB as well?

There aren't too many prosumer rotary HX's (or DB's, for that matter), but quite a few commercial ones. If tanked operation is required, then most commercial machines are not an option. Brewtuses are DB, but you might add Izzo Alex (the original, not Duetto) to the prosumer HX list.