Advice for lever espresso machine newbie, budget $1000 or less? - Page 2

Recommendations for buyers and upgraders from the site's members.
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Hudson
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#11: Post by Hudson »

Without active cooling I could not pull more than 2 back to back shots on my 2002 La Pav.
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laelpowers (original poster)
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#12: Post by laelpowers (original poster) »

Thank you, this is exactly the kind of info I was hoping for, and exactly what I was afraid of on the La Pavoni. I am very intimidated with the idea of making these modifications to the machine. Would I be better off increasing my budget and going for a Microcasa a Leva?

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nickw
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#13: Post by nickw replying to laelpowers »

If you're able increase your budget a bit:
- A used Strega will give you huge value. Autofill and back-to-back shot performance, steaming power, etc..
- A used cremina is also great machine in a smaller package. Although has some limits (about 4 shots. No autofill, less milk power).

Personally I'd take the Strega, but both are great. Each with their own bend.

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drgary
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#14: Post by drgary »

+1

Melissa:

If you can increase your budget for a Microcasa a Leva, I recommend you go for that. If you do and want it to be temperature stable over several shots and to be able to pull walk-up shots properly temped, you can add a heat break gasket as I discussed in the long form of my review of that machine. Adding a heat break gasket to a La Pavoni will also help stabilize it. If you add a heat break between the group and the boiler, you'll want to compensate with slightly longer screws. The current versions of La Pavoni are not nearly as well built as the Elektra, though. The older versions of La Pavoni are much better built. There were three generations of the home La Pavoni levers. The first are the best. The second generation more easily overheat but can be controlled. The third generation are the current ones. I can pull back to back shots with any of these. This works especially well if you use a lighter roast, which can be pulled hotter. People who want earlier La Pavoni versions and don't want to fuss with servicing them can find ones that have been serviced through several sources, and they will generally cost in the $400 range. The mention of wet steam is when steam is cooler because the pressure has been set low. Generally people will set the pressure on a La Pavoni manual lever at about 0.8 bar. That should provide adequate steaming.

When you open up the possibility of other machines, some folks go for the Ponte Vecchio Export or Lusso. There were quality control problems in the one I reviewed but they aren't universal and would be covered by the dealer. When these work they work well and I am told that build quality is being improved. You can check with the dealer. Shots are smaller but shot quality is similar to the Elektra.

Ponte Vecchio Export: Easy to Use, Harder to Recommend

Another possibility if there's room on your counter is getting a home machine with a larger commercial lever group. I like the Bezzera Strega for its low price, but others like Londinium are also very good. Here's the Strega review.

/bezzera-strega-review.html

Here's the definitive page on successive La Pavoni versions:

http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/lapavoni_ep_eng.htm

This is my review of the Elektra MIcrocasa a Leva. I prefer the chrome version because the durability of the finish is best on that one.

Elektra Microcasa a Leva Review

Here are some of my threads on temperature control for the La Pavoni machines. These aren't the only ones available but will give you more info:

Reaching the Zen Zone with a Two Switch La Pavoni This is for second generation machines.

Adding Thermometry to a La Pavoni Europiccola This gives you more fine-tuning than temperature strips, but temperature strips also work and are easier to install.

Dalton's law (And problems from it) This tells you how to release pockets of air that register as pressure and may keep your machine from coming up to temperature.

Olympia Cremina Temperature Study, Part 1 This gives you a sense of temperature control on this kind of machine in general.

La Pavoni Millennium Owners, Are Temperature Problems Solved? This is an old thread that may help.

There are other threads on H-B about this subject. Search and enjoy. These should get you in the ballpark.
Gary
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What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

laelpowers (original poster)
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#15: Post by laelpowers (original poster) »

Great info. I will spend the time to read all this. Thanks so much!

GreatDane
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#16: Post by GreatDane »

Melissa,
Gary is spot on and what great links! I also agree with the Elektra Microcasa as an excellent machine. (I am enjoying a nice double shot from mine as I type.) It is the only new espresso machine that I have ever bought. That said, the used ones I have bought have done well. I currently have 4 lever machines. My go to is the Elektra. My favorite machine in my Olympia Cremina, but it was made in the 70's and I am rebuilding it. What I have learned about used machines over the years is many of them have been lightly used. I am not sure how experienced you are with lever machines, but when things don't go as well as you expect, pulling shots having a new machine usually takes one piece out of the puzzle. The Elektra is a spring loaded machine so the pressure curve is the same each time too. The Grinder is to me a tougher question. There are so many good ones out there now compared to a few years ago. Have fun figuring things out! You may want to post your desires on the forum in the buy/sell section, and see if someone has a lightly used machine that would save you some money. If you don't want to make milk drinks, a La Peppina can be had for a good price and I have bought two of them that were shipped to me in their original boxes! The one I am PIDing I don't think was used at all. Let us know what your decision is so we can celebrate with you!

Les
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GreatDane
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#17: Post by GreatDane »

I just read Gary's review again on the Microcasa. It is so well done! Cannonfodder is the one who convinced me to give one a try, and I have not regretted it. I have been using mine several times a week for the past 8 years with no problems. I bought the two tone because I wanted the most beautiful one in my eyes. If I had to do it again, I would lean toward the all chome as Gary recommends. Another great way to control temperature is by using a Penny bottomless Portafilter. It is a great heatsink. I also like the analogy of driving a stick shift in his review.

Les
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IMAWriter
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#18: Post by IMAWriter »

PTI, but I'm curious as to why, for your first ever machine (?) you wish to choose a lever? Some of the comments you make regarding usage lead me to believe you MIGHT be better off with a good solid machine like a pre-owned QuickMill Anita (HX pump machine capable of suburb shots and solid steaming), or similar such machine. I'm sure you could find one within you budget requirements.

That said, thoughI've been a "lever-head" for quite a while, I'm am glad I started my journey with a pump still machine. There is much to master preparing coffee, and once that is second nature, perhaps then look into a lever.

The issues you raise about a La Pavoni are, in my experience with the newer 51mm PF Millennium, non issues. You get into a routine. After the second shot, simple dunk the PF into a vessel of cold water 10 seconds, dry, and you're ready to go. Simple. It's not the greatest steamer in the world, but gets the job done. The Olympia Cremina at under $1k is a long shot, but would be a winner for the use you describe, IMO your best choice.

As to grinder, from some recent personal experience with the Sette, it will be a fine choice for your use, due to it's consistent grind in the espresso range. However, if you're OK with a manual grinder, a pre-owned Pharos would also give you excellent results, and there are plenty of threads here to help with any questions. Many here enjoy there "process" of manually grinding, then hands on lever pulling their shots. Takes longer, but the entire process is unique.

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drgary
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#19: Post by drgary »

IMAWriter wrote:PTI, but I'm curious as to why, for your first ever machine (?) you wish to choose a lever?
FWIW I struggled to properly work a good pump machine (Isomac Amica e61 group single boiler dual use), and when I got my first La Pavoni Europiccola, Millennium model, I found it easier to use. A lever machine gives you a direct experience of pressure exerted on the coffee, even a spring lever, where you can see the lever moving under spring power and relate it to the flow you see into the cup.
Gary
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What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

IMAWriter
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#20: Post by IMAWriter replying to drgary »

Well, I DID say "Might" be better off. :lol: I enjoyed my Millennium Europiccola, other than the steaming, compared to my prior Anita. I think the La Pav gets a somewhat unfair knock...actually same with the MCAL, regarding overheating. Of course, having the teflon to boiler gasket you espouse certainly helps, but cool bath for the PF will ameliorate for those who haven't done the mod. A PF dip in the pool also helped my 3rd Cremina pull.